Trackday's are they worth it and why?
Discussion
Right this is more for Mrs RemaL to read then me:
why would it be a good idea to go on a trackday? for a newbie with just a few thousand miles of road miles under my belt?
what will I learn on track that I won't on the road?
How safe is going on track with a bike? and why?
Etc...
Please comments I can show the wife, so no commets like " I lost my penis on the track or I have no letgs now"
U am just thinking of ways that experanced riders can help a newbie such as myself to get on track and answer questions that my wife may have about me going on track
cheers
why would it be a good idea to go on a trackday? for a newbie with just a few thousand miles of road miles under my belt?
what will I learn on track that I won't on the road?
How safe is going on track with a bike? and why?
Etc...
Please comments I can show the wife, so no commets like " I lost my penis on the track or I have no letgs now"
U am just thinking of ways that experanced riders can help a newbie such as myself to get on track and answer questions that my wife may have about me going on track
cheers
garyhun said:
If serious i's a great way to learn the limits of your bike and your riding so that you do not find it out on the public roads!!!
No I am Serious Gary, she does no like bikes so telling her " good women, I is going on track" may not work without a good reason and plenty of information. all my family and inlaw's think the same apart from my brother in law. they all think the Kit car is fast and are just happy for me to go on track.
don't think I am under the thumb.
just want a good response to any questions she will ask when I tell her I AM going on a trackday in April
To Add Gary we must meet up on the bikes on a nice weekend in Jan or Feb. what u think Mate
regards
remal said:
Right this is more for Mrs RemaL to read then me:
why would it be a good idea to go on a trackday? for a newbie with just a few thousand miles of road miles under my belt?
what will I learn on track that I won't on the road?
How safe is going on track with a bike? and why?
Etc...
Please comments I can show the wife, so no commets like " I lost my penis on the track or I have no letgs now"
U am just thinking of ways that experanced riders can help a newbie such as myself to get on track and answer questions that my wife may have about me going on track
cheers
why would it be a good idea to go on a trackday? for a newbie with just a few thousand miles of road miles under my belt?
what will I learn on track that I won't on the road?
How safe is going on track with a bike? and why?
Etc...
Please comments I can show the wife, so no commets like " I lost my penis on the track or I have no letgs now"
U am just thinking of ways that experanced riders can help a newbie such as myself to get on track and answer questions that my wife may have about me going on track
cheers
Letgs? do you mean fingers?
Seriously, on track days you usually have three groups (novice, intermediate & fast) and one to one instruction if you ask (No Limits provide this).
As there are no diesel spills, potholes, lamposts or traffic coming the other way etc etc, you can then concentrate more on you riding, such as making good use of throttle,brakes and taking the right lines. Get those right and speed will come later.
P.S. It's a good laugh.
Tatty Bye
Track days are great places to ride the bike faster and safer than you can on the road. It gives you chance to learn the limits of the bike and how to control the bike to a much higher standard, which most definatley helps out when riding on the road. There should always be instructors available on track days to help you out but i would recommend that you try the Ron Haslam race school at donington park before venturing out on your own bike, this way you get proper instruction in a very controlled enviroment.
I had a nasty accident a couple of weeks back (see General Gassing). I believe even at 43 with 30,000+ bike miles in 4 years and a car licence since 17 I still have a lot to learn.
I plan to do Advanced motorbike training for road skills and track training to improve my bike handling. I really believe my braking and manoevering will improve this way. I did a car version of this and learnt a lot.
Go for it. This is about having a safe place to learn how to deal with emergencies, not about riding like a loon.
Ian
I plan to do Advanced motorbike training for road skills and track training to improve my bike handling. I really believe my braking and manoevering will improve this way. I did a car version of this and learnt a lot.
Go for it. This is about having a safe place to learn how to deal with emergencies, not about riding like a loon.
Ian
You can learn relax & learn about you're bike & improve your skills as a rider as you're not worring about things you may do on road, such as:
a) oil/mud, etc (tracks are super clean)
b) potholes (tracks are super smooth)
c) the tractors around the blind corner, etc
Added to that, if you do crash (which is inevitable at some point) you're a damn site better doing it on track than on the road
a) oil/mud, etc (tracks are super clean)
b) potholes (tracks are super smooth)
c) the tractors around the blind corner, etc
Added to that, if you do crash (which is inevitable at some point) you're a damn site better doing it on track than on the road
This will probably get flamed by some posters on here, but IMHO things like IAM only teach you about the 'softer' skills of riding a bike on the road, i.e. anticipation and awareness, etc. They do not teach technical machine control.
For this reason, you have lots of space on a track to learn how your machine handles with no fear of having a massive acident. Granted, accidents do happen on t/days, however, there is no oncoming traffic, no street furniture (kerbs, bollards, etc) and the suface is predictable.
If you are disciplined, you can set yourself a couple of 'drills' in each session, such as looking where you want to go, counter steering, smooth throttle transition, weigh transfer, body position, etc.
Most of the above skills are not solely for use on the track, and used in conjunction with more advanced road biased training (IAM, RoSPA, etc) will greatly enhance your overall skill level.
If we go to silverstone, I can teach you how to lay a darkie coming out of becketts, as the whole bike bucks and weaves until it regains grip. If in doubt, keep it pinned!! Also, going into Abbey with your knee on the deck flat in 4th is a great feeling!
For this reason, you have lots of space on a track to learn how your machine handles with no fear of having a massive acident. Granted, accidents do happen on t/days, however, there is no oncoming traffic, no street furniture (kerbs, bollards, etc) and the suface is predictable.
If you are disciplined, you can set yourself a couple of 'drills' in each session, such as looking where you want to go, counter steering, smooth throttle transition, weigh transfer, body position, etc.
Most of the above skills are not solely for use on the track, and used in conjunction with more advanced road biased training (IAM, RoSPA, etc) will greatly enhance your overall skill level.
If we go to silverstone, I can teach you how to lay a darkie coming out of becketts, as the whole bike bucks and weaves until it regains grip. If in doubt, keep it pinned!! Also, going into Abbey with your knee on the deck flat in 4th is a great feeling!
remal said:
garyhun said:
If serious i's a great way to learn the limits of your bike and your riding so that you do not find it out on the public roads!!!
No I am Serious Gary, she does no like bikes so telling her " good women, I is going on track" may not work without a good reason and plenty of information. all my family and inlaw's think the same apart from my brother in law. they all think the Kit car is fast and are just happy for me to go on track.
don't think I am under the thumb.
just want a good response to any questions she will ask when I tell her I AM going on a trackday in April
To Add Gary we must meet up on the bikes on a nice weekend in Jan or Feb. what u think Mate
regards
As has been said great way to learn to ride more proficiently in safe environment. Also you can tell the Mrs that with lots of instructor advice available it's more training to make you even safer on the roads.
Def up for a ride out over a nice weekend in Jan or Feb!!!
biker's nemesis said:
remal said:
Right this is more for Mrs RemaL to read then me:
why would it be a good idea to go on a trackday? for a newbie with just a few thousand miles of road miles under my belt?
what will I learn on track that I won't on the road?
How safe is going on track with a bike? and why?
Etc...
Please comments I can show the wife, so no commets like " I lost my penis on the track or I have no letgs now"
U am just thinking of ways that experanced riders can help a newbie such as myself to get on track and answer questions that my wife may have about me going on track
cheers
why would it be a good idea to go on a trackday? for a newbie with just a few thousand miles of road miles under my belt?
what will I learn on track that I won't on the road?
How safe is going on track with a bike? and why?
Etc...
Please comments I can show the wife, so no commets like " I lost my penis on the track or I have no letgs now"
U am just thinking of ways that experanced riders can help a newbie such as myself to get on track and answer questions that my wife may have about me going on track
cheers
Letgs? do you mean fingers?
sorry legs.
A good relationship with a trackday instructor with the likes of Ron Haslam's or Track Attack with Whitham and MacKenzie will allow you the 'insight' to the following items that will probably never be covered by any advanced road instruction:
Body Position.
Active Counter Steering.
Weighting the pegs.
Weight-shift.
Braking into the apex.
Late braking techniques.
Trying to get on the throttle earlier from the apex by lifting the bike to obtain more grip.
Using your knee slider to gauge front end grip and compensate for the lack of it.
The use of the rear brake to steer on corner entry.
Dependent on your rate of absorbtion, you may even, by the end of the day, be able to perform some of them.
Some instructors are great in disseminating the information to students, others not so. It depends on their personality. Most are completely nuts and come from a racing background. However, you will learn a lot just from being on a track in a controlled and relatively safe environment. You will start learning the bike's limits and feel less restricted by opening your own limits up.
May I suggest that a trackday in the wet, after you have completed a few? I have been on a couple now and although you are not getting your knee down, you learn a great deal of respect for throttle control and overall smoothness. It also shocks you when you realise that the tyres offer a lot more grip than you expect!!
The biggest bit of advice I can give to allow your day to go well is simply.......RELAX!! You will find that you automatically tense up as you no longer have any reference points (compared to a road). So speed is difficult to judge. By relaxing you won't be fighting against the bike's suspension and steering and you will keep a feel for what the engine and chassis is doing underneath you. Listen to the revs and ignore speedo/rev counters. Listen to your breathing, if you can't hear it, you are too tense.
I found that the faster laps that I did all came from what felt the slowest, I felt like I had loads more time to think about each part of the circuit rather than what gear I should be in or what revs to carry. This all came after I chilled out.
Another thing is make sure you eat properly and drink loads during the day. YOU WILL DE-HYDRATE!! You don't realise quite how hard you are working out there.
James
Body Position.
Active Counter Steering.
Weighting the pegs.
Weight-shift.
Braking into the apex.
Late braking techniques.
Trying to get on the throttle earlier from the apex by lifting the bike to obtain more grip.
Using your knee slider to gauge front end grip and compensate for the lack of it.
The use of the rear brake to steer on corner entry.
Dependent on your rate of absorbtion, you may even, by the end of the day, be able to perform some of them.
Some instructors are great in disseminating the information to students, others not so. It depends on their personality. Most are completely nuts and come from a racing background. However, you will learn a lot just from being on a track in a controlled and relatively safe environment. You will start learning the bike's limits and feel less restricted by opening your own limits up.
May I suggest that a trackday in the wet, after you have completed a few? I have been on a couple now and although you are not getting your knee down, you learn a great deal of respect for throttle control and overall smoothness. It also shocks you when you realise that the tyres offer a lot more grip than you expect!!
The biggest bit of advice I can give to allow your day to go well is simply.......RELAX!! You will find that you automatically tense up as you no longer have any reference points (compared to a road). So speed is difficult to judge. By relaxing you won't be fighting against the bike's suspension and steering and you will keep a feel for what the engine and chassis is doing underneath you. Listen to the revs and ignore speedo/rev counters. Listen to your breathing, if you can't hear it, you are too tense.
I found that the faster laps that I did all came from what felt the slowest, I felt like I had loads more time to think about each part of the circuit rather than what gear I should be in or what revs to carry. This all came after I chilled out.
Another thing is make sure you eat properly and drink loads during the day. YOU WILL DE-HYDRATE!! You don't realise quite how hard you are working out there.
James
If you do decide to come to Donington come on a Track Attack day as I'm one of the instructors there and have no problem in giving you some instruction, just let me know what day you're coming so that i can make sure it's one that I'm attending. Have a look at the dates available, www.donington-park.co.uk
cheers paul.
cheers paul.
Cool bananas, we had Jamie and Niall last year for my 30th birthday on the Premier package, that is the fastest I have been round Donny!!
I would like to book up for next season. Since the last outing I have regeared the blade for better acceleration and would like to see the difference exiting some of the tighter sections around Melbourne. I remember coming out of Goddards and pinning the sh*t out of the bike with Jamie on his back wheel on the R6 gaining on me as if I was going backwards!!! He is an absolute nutter on a bike and should be locked up.
I met up with them a couple of weeks after the track day at Goodwood Revival. Absolute top blokes.
A big recommendation for Track Attack from me, we were well looked after!
I would like to book up for next season. Since the last outing I have regeared the blade for better acceleration and would like to see the difference exiting some of the tighter sections around Melbourne. I remember coming out of Goddards and pinning the sh*t out of the bike with Jamie on his back wheel on the R6 gaining on me as if I was going backwards!!! He is an absolute nutter on a bike and should be locked up.
I met up with them a couple of weeks after the track day at Goodwood Revival. Absolute top blokes.
A big recommendation for Track Attack from me, we were well looked after!
Edited by veetwin on Friday 29th December 16:43
Trackdays are the best way to get to know your bike and what it can do. Good instructors can cure you of bad habits and give you insights and pointers that you would not have thought about in a million years. The skills you acquire on a trackday will absolutely make you a safer rider on the street. And nothing, nothing beats the exhilaration of doggedly getting closer and closer to someone and finally overtaking them after a few laps (even if they are just slowing down to exit)! 
If you can, buy some crashed or cheap, unpainted plastic body panels for your bike in advance. You can paint them, but or just sticker them up. Cover the back of your mirrors in gaffer tape and swap out your nice, pristine panels so that if you do end up sliding, your bike won't show roadrash the next day. Frame sliders are also a good idea.
I would also practice the "flop" in case you do have an off--when you are completely relaxed, you don't get hurt anywhere near as much.
Also, read Keith Code's books and watch his videos--they are an excellent way to prepare. I hope you can get them off Amazon.uk. Otherwise have someone in the US post them to you.
The other thing is, trackdays involve a fair amount of logistics. So make lists and get everything sorted a day or two in advance. You will be far less stressed. And if the track is a fair distance from your home, do the driving a day before and camping or staying somewhere near the track.
I highly recommend going with a friend and trailering the bikes because then you can share the driving and expenses, carry a lot more gear (food, tools, camping stuff, toys, etc.) in the vehicle, and if anything happens to the bike you can still get home, and get your bike to your garage/repair facility cheaply. Plus, you have a secure place for your stuff while you are out on the track. And if the weather's not nice, you can chill out with tea and music in a nice warm car instead of huddling miserably behind the pit wall.
Have fun.
If you can, buy some crashed or cheap, unpainted plastic body panels for your bike in advance. You can paint them, but or just sticker them up. Cover the back of your mirrors in gaffer tape and swap out your nice, pristine panels so that if you do end up sliding, your bike won't show roadrash the next day. Frame sliders are also a good idea.
I would also practice the "flop" in case you do have an off--when you are completely relaxed, you don't get hurt anywhere near as much.
Also, read Keith Code's books and watch his videos--they are an excellent way to prepare. I hope you can get them off Amazon.uk. Otherwise have someone in the US post them to you.
The other thing is, trackdays involve a fair amount of logistics. So make lists and get everything sorted a day or two in advance. You will be far less stressed. And if the track is a fair distance from your home, do the driving a day before and camping or staying somewhere near the track.
I highly recommend going with a friend and trailering the bikes because then you can share the driving and expenses, carry a lot more gear (food, tools, camping stuff, toys, etc.) in the vehicle, and if anything happens to the bike you can still get home, and get your bike to your garage/repair facility cheaply. Plus, you have a secure place for your stuff while you are out on the track. And if the weather's not nice, you can chill out with tea and music in a nice warm car instead of huddling miserably behind the pit wall.
Have fun.
fergus said:
This will probably get flamed by some posters on here, but IMHO things like IAM only teach you about the 'softer' skills of riding a bike on the road, i.e. anticipation and awareness, etc. They do not teach technical machine control.
For this reason, you have lots of space on a track to learn how your machine handles with no fear of having a massive acident. Granted, accidents do happen on t/days, however, there is no oncoming traffic, no street furniture (kerbs, bollards, etc) and the suface is predictable.
If you are disciplined, you can set yourself a couple of 'drills' in each session, such as looking where you want to go, counter steering, smooth throttle transition, weigh transfer, body position, etc.
Most of the above skills are not solely for use on the track, and used in conjunction with more advanced road biased training (IAM, RoSPA, etc) will greatly enhance your overall skill level.
If we go to silverstone, I can teach you how to lay a darkie coming out of becketts, as the whole bike bucks and weaves until it regains grip. If in doubt, keep it pinned!! Also, going into Abbey with your knee on the deck flat in 4th is a great feeling!
For this reason, you have lots of space on a track to learn how your machine handles with no fear of having a massive acident. Granted, accidents do happen on t/days, however, there is no oncoming traffic, no street furniture (kerbs, bollards, etc) and the suface is predictable.
If you are disciplined, you can set yourself a couple of 'drills' in each session, such as looking where you want to go, counter steering, smooth throttle transition, weigh transfer, body position, etc.
Most of the above skills are not solely for use on the track, and used in conjunction with more advanced road biased training (IAM, RoSPA, etc) will greatly enhance your overall skill level.
If we go to silverstone, I can teach you how to lay a darkie coming out of becketts, as the whole bike bucks and weaves until it regains grip. If in doubt, keep it pinned!! Also, going into Abbey with your knee on the deck flat in 4th is a great feeling!
I agree with some of what you have said Fergus, but I think there should be some clarification. I can only speak from personal experience but all of the advanced riding courses I have done have covered machine control (throttle, brakes, body position etc.) as well as covering what you describe as the ‘soft skills’.
For newcomers to motorcycling, I would argue that the ‘soft skills’ are much more important than knowing how to get you knee/toe/peg down in the artificial environment of a track. What most newcomers don’t appreciate (and many experienced riders also) is that the lines taken when riding on a track are very different to those that should be used on the road and using track lines on the road is positively dangerous.
My personal experience is also that instruction at track days is not readily available (too many riders – not enough instructors) unless you pay significantly more money. Thus a lot of ‘newbies’ tend to wobble of around the track continuing with their bad habbits.
While I may sound negative about track days, I’m not. I just think they need to be viewed for what they are. An opportunity to push the rider and the bike a little further than would be safe to do on the road. If you want some training for the road, do and advanced course. If you want some training for the track, do a track course. If you want a thrash in a slightly safer environment, do a track day.
remal said:
Right this is more for Mrs RemaL to read then me:
why would it be a good idea to go on a trackday? for a newbie with just a few thousand miles of road miles under my belt?
what will I learn on track that I won't on the road?
How safe is going on track with a bike? and why?
Etc...
Please comments I can show the wife, so no commets like " I lost my penis on the track or I have no letgs now"
U am just thinking of ways that experanced riders can help a newbie such as myself to get on track and answer questions that my wife may have about me going on track
cheers
why would it be a good idea to go on a trackday? for a newbie with just a few thousand miles of road miles under my belt?
what will I learn on track that I won't on the road?
How safe is going on track with a bike? and why?
Etc...
Please comments I can show the wife, so no commets like " I lost my penis on the track or I have no letgs now"
U am just thinking of ways that experanced riders can help a newbie such as myself to get on track and answer questions that my wife may have about me going on track
cheers
Not sure I'd recommend a normal track day - too many bloated egos that don't understand the limits of their ability = too many crashes and even if you are not involved, it stops the session and you can end up spending a lot of money for not a lot of track time. I've done plenty of normal track days in my time btw.
You are far better off going to one of the track schools, rather than a normal track day, if you have little or no track experience. I have used Hopp Rider Training a couple of times, very well organised, safe and plenty fast enough. Not one accident on either day speaks volumes. There are of course other companies too, but some are more race school oriented (but still fine as a learning experience). Generally you will pay a bit more but in terms of £'s per minute on track I'd say it's better value.
Hope that helps
Cheers
Jerry
black-k1 said:
fergus said:
This will probably get flamed by some posters on here, but IMHO things like IAM only teach you about the 'softer' skills of riding a bike on the road, i.e. anticipation and awareness, etc. They do not teach technical machine control.
For this reason, you have lots of space on a track to learn how your machine handles with no fear of having a massive acident. Granted, accidents do happen on t/days, however, there is no oncoming traffic, no street furniture (kerbs, bollards, etc) and the suface is predictable.
If you are disciplined, you can set yourself a couple of 'drills' in each session, such as looking where you want to go, counter steering, smooth throttle transition, weigh transfer, body position, etc.
Most of the above skills are not solely for use on the track, and used in conjunction with more advanced road biased training (IAM, RoSPA, etc) will greatly enhance your overall skill level.
If we go to silverstone, I can teach you how to lay a darkie coming out of becketts, as the whole bike bucks and weaves until it regains grip. If in doubt, keep it pinned!! Also, going into Abbey with your knee on the deck flat in 4th is a great feeling!
For this reason, you have lots of space on a track to learn how your machine handles with no fear of having a massive acident. Granted, accidents do happen on t/days, however, there is no oncoming traffic, no street furniture (kerbs, bollards, etc) and the suface is predictable.
If you are disciplined, you can set yourself a couple of 'drills' in each session, such as looking where you want to go, counter steering, smooth throttle transition, weigh transfer, body position, etc.
Most of the above skills are not solely for use on the track, and used in conjunction with more advanced road biased training (IAM, RoSPA, etc) will greatly enhance your overall skill level.
If we go to silverstone, I can teach you how to lay a darkie coming out of becketts, as the whole bike bucks and weaves until it regains grip. If in doubt, keep it pinned!! Also, going into Abbey with your knee on the deck flat in 4th is a great feeling!
I agree with some of what you have said Fergus, but I think there should be some clarification. I can only speak from personal experience but all of the advanced riding courses I have done have covered machine control (throttle, brakes, body position etc.) as well as covering what you describe as the ‘soft skills’.
For newcomers to motorcycling, I would argue that the ‘soft skills’ are much more important than knowing how to get you knee/toe/peg down in the artificial environment of a track. What most newcomers don’t appreciate (and many experienced riders also) is that the lines taken when riding on a track are very different to those that should be used on the road and using track lines on the road is positively dangerous.
My personal experience is also that instruction at track days is not readily available (too many riders – not enough instructors) unless you pay significantly more money. Thus a lot of ‘newbies’ tend to wobble of around the track continuing with their bad habbits.
While I may sound negative about track days, I’m not. I just think they need to be viewed for what they are. An opportunity to push the rider and the bike a little further than would be safe to do on the road. If you want some training for the road, do and advanced course. If you want some training for the track, do a track course. If you want a thrash in a slightly safer environment, do a track day.
David
I agree with all your comments!
There is a very specific division between skills that are useful on the track and those that are useful on the road. The transfer of track related skills to the road often ends up resulitng in accidents, esp for less experienced riders. Some of the technical machine control skills are essentail to allow you to get quicker lap times, but do also allow you to make better 'progress' on the road, e.g being able to blip the throttle whilst braking and going down the gearbox for example. Concepts such as block shifting are completely redundant on the track!! I agree, that the instruction at t/days can be patchy at times, but I guess this is a function of the t/day organiser and the individual instructors they use on their days. Be aware that some of the instructors are neither that quick or necesserily good teachers....
fergus said:
Some of the technical machine control skills are essentail to allow you to get quicker lap times, but do also allow you to make better 'progress' on the road, e.g being able to blip the throttle whilst braking and going down the gearbox for example.
Isn't that taught when you first learn to ride? I remember I started doing it pretty soon when I was riding 50cc bikes, because the engine braking made it so uncomfortable... Plus it sounds cool...
trackdays IMO are safer than road rides...no heavy traffic ...excellent road surface...good run off...no kerbs...the key is to try to stay relaxed and not worry about what`s behind too much...guys passing you SHOULD appear up the inside `well before` the apex so you don`t teally need to worry about your behind being swarmed over .....just concentrate on a smooth ride and the speed comes naturally...there is always someone on the same pace as you so you never need to worry about feeling out of place......on the road the surface is too unreliable to really have confidence cranked over...stay within your own personal riding limits...it will stretch over the course of the day until you are riding better than ever...
Edited by F.M on Sunday 31st December 18:15
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