Jumping the Lights?
Discussion
Morning guys - a Happy New Year to All
A bit of advice/opinion required here. This morning around 5:30am I approached a normally very busy junction (but at this time and date it was deserted) that is fitted with Gatso type cameras to catch people jumping the lights. Now I am well aware of the cameras on this junction and am actually in full agreement with them being sited there having witnessed quite a nasty accident there myself and heard of several others caused by jumping (I believe this is a case where the cameras have actually brought about a reduction in injuries and accidents on this junction - which is a single carriageway crossing a 40mph dual carriageway).
Anyway as I approached the junction I could already see the lights changing on the other carriageway and I anticipated the change on my side by slowing and dropping down into second in readiness for the change my side or to brake as necessary if the lights had not changed. As I crossed the line of the junction the lights were already showing Red and Amber and I reckon I didn't even get more than a car length beyond the white line when I noticed the camera flash. I doubt I was doing even 20mph at the time. Now what I want an opinion on is twofold - doesn't the camera operating on such a short margin seem a little excessive/quick as I reckon most people who stop at this junction and accelerate hardish from a standstill on seeing the lights change to Red/Amber would probably progress as much as I had. Does anyone know of calibration problems with these things - it does seem very harsh - I drive a lot for my living and at present have a clean licence.
Second query - if I get an NIP can I use the letter draft I think is on this site to declare my details yet withold the right for them to use the letter as evidence against me thus making them have to prove I was driving (which they won't be able to as it was a camera from behind).
I realise there will be those on this site that will take the view that if you "do the crime then pay the fine" but I genuinely believe that this camera operated after the lights had changed. (The argument that the roads were deserted and could be seen as such for considerable distances would not hold any water anyway I suppose).
Any help or advice appreciated.
Cheers
A bit of advice/opinion required here. This morning around 5:30am I approached a normally very busy junction (but at this time and date it was deserted) that is fitted with Gatso type cameras to catch people jumping the lights. Now I am well aware of the cameras on this junction and am actually in full agreement with them being sited there having witnessed quite a nasty accident there myself and heard of several others caused by jumping (I believe this is a case where the cameras have actually brought about a reduction in injuries and accidents on this junction - which is a single carriageway crossing a 40mph dual carriageway).
Anyway as I approached the junction I could already see the lights changing on the other carriageway and I anticipated the change on my side by slowing and dropping down into second in readiness for the change my side or to brake as necessary if the lights had not changed. As I crossed the line of the junction the lights were already showing Red and Amber and I reckon I didn't even get more than a car length beyond the white line when I noticed the camera flash. I doubt I was doing even 20mph at the time. Now what I want an opinion on is twofold - doesn't the camera operating on such a short margin seem a little excessive/quick as I reckon most people who stop at this junction and accelerate hardish from a standstill on seeing the lights change to Red/Amber would probably progress as much as I had. Does anyone know of calibration problems with these things - it does seem very harsh - I drive a lot for my living and at present have a clean licence.
Second query - if I get an NIP can I use the letter draft I think is on this site to declare my details yet withold the right for them to use the letter as evidence against me thus making them have to prove I was driving (which they won't be able to as it was a camera from behind).
I realise there will be those on this site that will take the view that if you "do the crime then pay the fine" but I genuinely believe that this camera operated after the lights had changed. (The argument that the roads were deserted and could be seen as such for considerable distances would not hold any water anyway I suppose).
Any help or advice appreciated.
Cheers
The same offence is commited crossing the line on red & amber as it is on red.
The camera will have taken two photos of your car showing it crossing the line & it will also show the lights (& their colour). On the photo will be recorded your speed & the time lapsed since the lights changed to red when you crossed the line.
The camera will have taken two photos of your car showing it crossing the line & it will also show the lights (& their colour). On the photo will be recorded your speed & the time lapsed since the lights changed to red when you crossed the line.
vonhosen said:
The same offence is commited crossing the line on red & amber as it is on red.
The camera will have taken two photos of your car showing it crossing the line & it will also show the lights (& their colour). On the photo will be recorded your speed & the time lapsed since the lights changed to red when you crossed the line.
Assuming the camera has film in it. The camera will have taken two photos of your car showing it crossing the line & it will also show the lights (& their colour). On the photo will be recorded your speed & the time lapsed since the lights changed to red when you crossed the line.
Customary fortnight wait ahead.
elanfan said:
I can honestly say I only noticed a single flash - it was dark at the time and I think I would have noticed a second flash even if they are very close together.
Any views/advice on how to deal with the NIP/Section 72 stuff would be appreciated.
Thanks
If you're sure there was only one flash, this looks like yer standard mark one dummycam set up with sensors and flash active but no film. How to deal with it? Remember 'nil carborundum illigitimis' and forget all about it until two weeks' time, when you can probably forget about it period. Any views/advice on how to deal with the NIP/Section 72 stuff would be appreciated.
Thanks
They want you to agonise and feel guilty for driving a car, and also making a millimetric error, but sod the lot, your description of events hardly sounds like mister dangerous let loose on the roads deliberately ploughing through a red light at speed through crossing pedestrians into opposing traffic, your description represents a no-effect minor lapse of judgement at the very worst, so party away and don't worry about there being a NIP in the air until you can feel it
If you jumped the lights ie on amber then you will receive a fine and points , but if you were not speeding there is every chance they will offer you a driver appreciation course it will cost you 60 pounds but no points and no fine. If you were speeding they will book you
Do the course its quite enjoyable
Steve
Do the course its quite enjoyable
Steve
As I said I could see for considerable distance in both directions and the road was deserted. There was no question of being an Amber Gambler (Is it me or does that go back a while!) - I don't agree with such things at worst it was a minor lapse of judgement or the camera needing calibration.
Still would appreciate some feedback of how I can deal with a ticket IF it comes (with me it will be more than a 2 week wait - it's a company car and the leasing company will I am sure not deal with it with any urgency!)
As to the driving course suggestion - have been on 2 company sponsored defensive driving courses with ex Police drivers (the first one scared me shitless!) and am apparently due on one again soon. Can I raise this possibility with them as an alternative to court or is it wholly at their discretion?
Cheers
Still would appreciate some feedback of how I can deal with a ticket IF it comes (with me it will be more than a 2 week wait - it's a company car and the leasing company will I am sure not deal with it with any urgency!)
As to the driving course suggestion - have been on 2 company sponsored defensive driving courses with ex Police drivers (the first one scared me shitless!) and am apparently due on one again soon. Can I raise this possibility with them as an alternative to court or is it wholly at their discretion?
Cheers
elanfan said:
As I said I could see for considerable distance in both directions and the road was deserted. There was no question of being an Amber Gambler (Is it me or does that go back a while!) - I don't agree with such things at worst it was a minor lapse of judgement or the camera needing calibration.
Still would appreciate some feedback of how I can deal with a ticket IF it comes (with me it will be more than a 2 week wait - it's a company car and the leasing company will I am sure not deal with it with any urgency!)
As to the driving course suggestion - have been on 2 company sponsored defensive driving courses with ex Police drivers (the first one scared me shitless!) and am apparently due on one again soon. Can I raise this possibility with them as an alternative to court or is it wholly at their discretion?
Cheers
Still would appreciate some feedback of how I can deal with a ticket IF it comes (with me it will be more than a 2 week wait - it's a company car and the leasing company will I am sure not deal with it with any urgency!)
As to the driving course suggestion - have been on 2 company sponsored defensive driving courses with ex Police drivers (the first one scared me shitless!) and am apparently due on one again soon. Can I raise this possibility with them as an alternative to court or is it wholly at their discretion?
Cheers
Their discretion.
vonhosen said:
elanfan said:
As I said I could see for considerable distance in both directions and the road was deserted. There was no question of being an Amber Gambler (Is it me or does that go back a while!) - I don't agree with such things at worst it was a minor lapse of judgement or the camera needing calibration.
Still would appreciate some feedback of how I can deal with a ticket IF it comes (with me it will be more than a 2 week wait - it's a company car and the leasing company will I am sure not deal with it with any urgency!)
As to the driving course suggestion - have been on 2 company sponsored defensive driving courses with ex Police drivers (the first one scared me shitless!) and am apparently due on one again soon. Can I raise this possibility with them as an alternative to court or is it wholly at their discretion?
Cheers
Still would appreciate some feedback of how I can deal with a ticket IF it comes (with me it will be more than a 2 week wait - it's a company car and the leasing company will I am sure not deal with it with any urgency!)
As to the driving course suggestion - have been on 2 company sponsored defensive driving courses with ex Police drivers (the first one scared me shitless!) and am apparently due on one again soon. Can I raise this possibility with them as an alternative to court or is it wholly at their discretion?
Cheers
Their discretion.
And 'their' possible or even probable lack of film. More money is sloshing around these days so has it gone up from 12% to 20% or a bit more?
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