Fuel Cooler and cooling
Discussion
The old girl is currently in pieces and having looked through the foums and chatted to people 1 grey area is that of fuel cooling. I an effort to get everything as efficient as possible the whole air intake system will be mod'ed to get cool. IE lagged intake silcone hoses - reduced trumpet length - insulated pelenium - heater grid on intake removed.
Now there is some talk of lagging or wrapping the fuel rail - sounds a good idea and will propably do but has anybody out their fitted a small fuel cooler? If so where - in supply line or in return line - location of cooler? Did anything need modding - IE pump filter rail pressure control unit.
I am undecided whether this would be benificial.
Now there is some talk of lagging or wrapping the fuel rail - sounds a good idea and will propably do but has anybody out their fitted a small fuel cooler? If so where - in supply line or in return line - location of cooler? Did anything need modding - IE pump filter rail pressure control unit.
I am undecided whether this would be benificial.
Worthwhile, but law of diminishing returns applies. Not sure lagging fuel lines will do anything for you.
Just to expand on that - the fuel rails are bolted to the intake manifold, which is bolted to the heads, which get hot. Very hot. Even if you could reduce fuel temp in the supply pipe by lagging it still hits the hot fuel rails before getting to the injectors, so any difference you had made will be lost. IMO. If you had machined the inlet manifold and fitted isolator plates between heads and manifold then the fuel rails would be cool and the effect of lagging the fuel supply line wouldn't be lost. Without isolating the manifold, lagging the fuel lines is pointless.
Just to expand on that - the fuel rails are bolted to the intake manifold, which is bolted to the heads, which get hot. Very hot. Even if you could reduce fuel temp in the supply pipe by lagging it still hits the hot fuel rails before getting to the injectors, so any difference you had made will be lost. IMO. If you had machined the inlet manifold and fitted isolator plates between heads and manifold then the fuel rails would be cool and the effect of lagging the fuel supply line wouldn't be lost. Without isolating the manifold, lagging the fuel lines is pointless.
Edited by victormeldrew on Friday 5th January 09:56
Forgot to mention isolator plate will also be fitted to keep everything cooler.
So should a cooler be fitted in supply to reduce fuel temp before hitting the rail or in return line to keep bulk fuel temp lower? Six or two three's?
So should a cooler be fitted in supply to reduce fuel temp before hitting the rail or in return line to keep bulk fuel temp lower? Six or two three's?
Edited by symonab on Friday 5th January 10:01
Edited by symonab on Friday 5th January 10:03
The isolator plate keeps everything from trumpet base upwards cooler, but has no effect on the inlet manifold temp, nor anything bolted directly to it. Except maybe a negative effect - the heat can't escape from the manifold by conduction, so it may actually be hotter with the isolator plate in place.
The rail is bolted to the inlet manifold (not the heads), the inlet manifold is water heated and no insulator plate or any other practical modification is going to change this without a major redesign of the cooling system. However, the thermal connection between the fuel rail and the manifold is not massive. I lagged the fuel rail on mine to reduce heat soak in filling stations, and it made a noticeable improvement. You'll never get the fuel rail completely cold, but you can make it a lot cooler. This will only address short term heat soak. If you want to cool the fuel significantly longer term, you need to insulate the tank from exhaust heat too.
You and me both! I already have the isolator plate fitted, and before my session I will be fitting a silicone elbow and replacing or lagging the inlet hose.
I did find an article on someone fitting isolators to a V6 between heads and manifold. Now I'd have thought that a 3-4mm isolator would throw the manifold about 2mm out of line, so you'd need to skim 3-4mm off the manifold to line things up again. It doesn't look like this guy did that; maybe his V is very narrow, or maybe there is enough flex in the manifold to cope? Fitting isolators between head and manifold would extend the benefits of the cool plenum on airflow temps as well as effectively isolate the fuel rails, so this is possibly the optimum set-up if it can be done.
I did find an article on someone fitting isolators to a V6 between heads and manifold. Now I'd have thought that a 3-4mm isolator would throw the manifold about 2mm out of line, so you'd need to skim 3-4mm off the manifold to line things up again. It doesn't look like this guy did that; maybe his V is very narrow, or maybe there is enough flex in the manifold to cope? Fitting isolators between head and manifold would extend the benefits of the cool plenum on airflow temps as well as effectively isolate the fuel rails, so this is possibly the optimum set-up if it can be done.
GreenV8S said:
The rail is bolted to the inlet manifold (not the heads), the inlet manifold is water heated and no insulator plate or any other practical modification is going to change this without a major redesign of the cooling system. However, the thermal connection between the fuel rail and the manifold is not massive. I lagged the fuel rail on mine to reduce heat soak in filling stations, and it made a noticeable improvement. You'll never get the fuel rail completely cold, but you can make it a lot cooler. This will only address short term heat soak. If you want to cool the fuel significantly longer term, you need to insulate the tank from exhaust heat too.
Duh, yes, 'course it is. Forget isolators between head and manifold then! Fibre washers and a bit of lagging then!
One of the main points of this project is to improve performace running etc without spending £££££££££££££'s 
This afternoon will be spent down the garage cursing at the half shaft bolts trying to remove them. Suspension is to be sand blasted and resprayed with Epoxy Mastic 121 from Rustbusters. Chassis is currently being rubbed/scrapped down and removing waxoyl and again that will be hand painted with EM 121. Whole lot will then be sprayed up with Dinitrol of one form or another. Cost of complete chassis tidy up no more than £150 and millions of my man hours. Exhaust will also be sand blasted and sprayed with Ceramakrome to give it
a) tidy look
b) some thermal protection
Engine upgrades plan to be the same but a little more expensive.
I cannot afford carbon fibre pelenium, porting heads, cam upgrades, 24 pot brakes (sorry carried away) and twin turbo's etc etc. As well as renovating house - sore subject that one!
Sorry war and peace back to the point of the thread.
Should fuel lines from tank be insulated then?
This afternoon will be spent down the garage cursing at the half shaft bolts trying to remove them. Suspension is to be sand blasted and resprayed with Epoxy Mastic 121 from Rustbusters. Chassis is currently being rubbed/scrapped down and removing waxoyl and again that will be hand painted with EM 121. Whole lot will then be sprayed up with Dinitrol of one form or another. Cost of complete chassis tidy up no more than £150 and millions of my man hours. Exhaust will also be sand blasted and sprayed with Ceramakrome to give it
a) tidy look
b) some thermal protection
Engine upgrades plan to be the same but a little more expensive.
I cannot afford carbon fibre pelenium, porting heads, cam upgrades, 24 pot brakes (sorry carried away) and twin turbo's etc etc. As well as renovating house - sore subject that one!
Sorry war and peace back to the point of the thread.
Should fuel lines from tank be insulated then?
spend said:
symonab said:
spend said:
You can get any parts, not just exhausts, ceramic coated you know. Dave
Now there is a bloody good idea. Still need insulating from heads though - fibre washers.
???? If the bracket that the bolt/washer to the head is coated its insulated!
Dave
I would have a guess that the thermal paint is only really good at protecting radiant heat transfer not physical transfer buy the components touching - as you can tell physics wasnt my greatest subject. Neither was English. Cant read or write but I can drive a tractor!
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