BBC - Reporting at its worst!
Discussion
Just watched a BBC report about the horrendous coach crash on the M25 slip.
How thoroughly brain washed we have all become about the issues of speed; there seems no end to inaccurate assumption.
A Scots lad who survived gave a chillingly succinct account of how he saw it coming and hung on to the side rails then pulled some people through a sunroof vent to the rescuers outside.
He said on three occasions that the driver appeared to take to the hatch section on the slip road and then had to swerve back over onto the bend; but he didn't know why he, the driver, had done this as it was clearly the wrong position in the road.
BBC reporter says, "Well, as we have just heard, the surviver said the driver was going too fast!"
On no he did not!
What do we have to do to purge the speed kill mentality from our society?
How thoroughly brain washed we have all become about the issues of speed; there seems no end to inaccurate assumption.
A Scots lad who survived gave a chillingly succinct account of how he saw it coming and hung on to the side rails then pulled some people through a sunroof vent to the rescuers outside.
He said on three occasions that the driver appeared to take to the hatch section on the slip road and then had to swerve back over onto the bend; but he didn't know why he, the driver, had done this as it was clearly the wrong position in the road.
BBC reporter says, "Well, as we have just heard, the surviver said the driver was going too fast!"
On no he did not!
What do we have to do to purge the speed kill mentality from our society?
Edited by jith on Friday 5th January 14:49
jith said:
What do we have to do to purge the speed kill mentality from our society?
I'm thinking, use of the stocks for those who are lying about it?
I heard one report which said a passenger claimed the driver was doing at least 80, even after it was pointed out to him the vehicle was limited to IIRC 62mph.
The moment the vehicle entered the news it was identified as speeding.
Of course anybody with any sense will know that a modern coach would be limited at 100km/h and as such the "speeding" would be driving too fast for the conditions, rather than exceeding the posted limit.
By doing this kind of thing constantly, they're only devaluing themselves. And possibly the term "speeding" will end up meaningless, if it goes on long enough.
Should the subsequent investigation discover the limiter was fully functional, will egg be silently wiped from faces and the story gently dropped again? Anybody remember the "speeding" car that crashed into a cycling club last year? That was in the news constantly up to the day when the police reported that the driver hadn't been speeding, but instead had failed to read the road and subsequently lost control on ice.
Story quietly disappeared, search mounted for something else that could be pinned on numerical speed alone.
I do wish they'd stop being on message and start being a respected provider of facts.
Of course anybody with any sense will know that a modern coach would be limited at 100km/h and as such the "speeding" would be driving too fast for the conditions, rather than exceeding the posted limit.
By doing this kind of thing constantly, they're only devaluing themselves. And possibly the term "speeding" will end up meaningless, if it goes on long enough.
Should the subsequent investigation discover the limiter was fully functional, will egg be silently wiped from faces and the story gently dropped again? Anybody remember the "speeding" car that crashed into a cycling club last year? That was in the news constantly up to the day when the police reported that the driver hadn't been speeding, but instead had failed to read the road and subsequently lost control on ice.
Story quietly disappeared, search mounted for something else that could be pinned on numerical speed alone.
I do wish they'd stop being on message and start being a respected provider of facts.
timberwolf said:
I do wish they'd stop being on message and start being a respected provider of facts.
Won't happen...the BBC is a political animal that has been bullied into place by the Labour spin machine and a few unfriendly solicitors.
You only have to look on Have Your Say to see that 90% of the people who read the BBC website no longer trust this government, yet the BBC still marches to the government's tune.
He who pays the piper...
havoc said:
timberwolf said:
I do wish they'd stop being on message and start being a respected provider of facts.
Won't happen...the BBC is a political animal that has been bullied into place by the Labour spin machine and a few unfriendly solicitors.
You only have to look on Have Your Say to see that 90% of the people who read the BBC website no longer trust this government, yet the BBC still marches to the government's tune.
He who pays the piper...
The bend is question, is well known in the police for lorries and large vehicles rolling over due to the bend. There is a bend that does the same going from south bound M25 to west bound M4. If the road is damp we pull cars out all the time, the signs to show a advisory limit of 40mph. Just have a look at the crash barriers to see how many times it has been done.
iainbrown said:
The bend is question, is well known in the police for lorries and large vehicles rolling over due to the bend. There is a bend that does the same going from south bound M25 to west bound M4. If the road is damp we pull cars out all the time, the signs to show a advisory limit of 40mph. Just have a look at the crash barriers to see how many times it has been done.
Surely if it was due to the bend & not how each vehicle driver drives it with regard to circumstances, every large vehicle would suffer the same fate.
vonhosen said:
iainbrown said:
The bend is question, is well known in the police for lorries and large vehicles rolling over due to the bend. There is a bend that does the same going from south bound M25 to west bound M4. If the road is damp we pull cars out all the time, the signs to show a advisory limit of 40mph. Just have a look at the crash barriers to see how many times it has been done.
Surely if it was due to the bend & not how each vehicle driver drives it with regard to circumstances, every large vehicle would suffer the same fate.
surely if accidents were caused by speed every speeding driver would crash
hugoagogo said:
vonhosen said:
iainbrown said:
The bend is question, is well known in the police for lorries and large vehicles rolling over due to the bend. There is a bend that does the same going from south bound M25 to west bound M4. If the road is damp we pull cars out all the time, the signs to show a advisory limit of 40mph. Just have a look at the crash barriers to see how many times it has been done.
Surely if it was due to the bend & not how each vehicle driver drives it with regard to circumstances, every large vehicle would suffer the same fate.
surely if accidents were caused by speed every speeding driver would crash
Speed doesn't cause a collision, it can be a contributory factor (to varying degrees) in you being unable to avoid hitting something & also a factor in the severity of the outcome.
Edited by vonhosen on Friday 5th January 17:58
vonhosen said:
iainbrown said:
The bend is question, is well known in the police for lorries and large vehicles rolling over due to the bend. There is a bend that does the same going from south bound M25 to west bound M4. If the road is damp we pull cars out all the time, the signs to show a advisory limit of 40mph. Just have a look at the crash barriers to see how many times it has been done.
Surely if it was due to the bend & not how each vehicle driver drives it with regard to circumstances, every large vehicle would suffer the same fate.
That is true but misleading, because it's only a part of the story.
It is equally true to say:
Surely if the bend were better engineered, there should be no greater incidence of professional drivers' crashing than there is on other slip roads.
Not as bad as the local BBC news reporting on the motorcylist who suffered injuries when the kid playing chicken ran out in front of him & darwin struck him down.
"Killer motorcylcist applies for compensation" They later report in the piece that the it was'nt the bikers fault & he was'nt speeding.
Re the bus crash:
From the passenger accounts it appears the bus veered out of the lane for some reason, the driver corrected & then got it sideways, lost control & flipped it over on the rebound. But no doubt we'll get all the info at some point.
The BBC report also just stated that it was a 40mph limit, they did'nt mention that's advisory
"Killer motorcylcist applies for compensation" They later report in the piece that the it was'nt the bikers fault & he was'nt speeding.
Re the bus crash:
From the passenger accounts it appears the bus veered out of the lane for some reason, the driver corrected & then got it sideways, lost control & flipped it over on the rebound. But no doubt we'll get all the info at some point.
The BBC report also just stated that it was a 40mph limit, they did'nt mention that's advisory
timberwolf said:
The moment the vehicle entered the news it was identified as speeding.
Of course anybody with any sense will know that a modern coach would be limited at 100km/h and as such the "speeding" would be driving too fast for the conditions, rather than exceeding the posted limit.
By doing this kind of thing constantly, they're only devaluing themselves. And possibly the term "speeding" will end up meaningless, if it goes on long enough.
Should the subsequent investigation discover the limiter was fully functional, will egg be silently wiped from faces and the story gently dropped again? Anybody remember the "speeding" car that crashed into a cycling club last year? That was in the news constantly up to the day when the police reported that the driver hadn't been speeding, but instead had failed to read the road and subsequently lost control on ice.
Story quietly disappeared, search mounted for something else that could be pinned on numerical speed alone.
I do wish they'd stop being on message and start being a respected provider of facts.
Of course anybody with any sense will know that a modern coach would be limited at 100km/h and as such the "speeding" would be driving too fast for the conditions, rather than exceeding the posted limit.
By doing this kind of thing constantly, they're only devaluing themselves. And possibly the term "speeding" will end up meaningless, if it goes on long enough.
Should the subsequent investigation discover the limiter was fully functional, will egg be silently wiped from faces and the story gently dropped again? Anybody remember the "speeding" car that crashed into a cycling club last year? That was in the news constantly up to the day when the police reported that the driver hadn't been speeding, but instead had failed to read the road and subsequently lost control on ice.
Story quietly disappeared, search mounted for something else that could be pinned on numerical speed alone.
I do wish they'd stop being on message and start being a respected provider of facts.
I think "speeding" is already meaningless, and so is used to mean whatever people want it to. It is generally uttered by police et al as meaning "too fast for the conditions" and is interpreted by the populace as "above the speed limit" -- it therefore achieves exactly what the powers-that-be require.
JoolzB said:
The 6 o'clock report seemed to imply that the accident was due to the bend in the road getting tighter and the road signs showing no indication of it doing so. Also blaming the more severe injuries on people not wearing seatbelts.
So the questions are ...
Was this the first time the driver had driven that type of bus on that journey?
And what is it that makes the passengers not wear belts? One apparent 'hero' whose story is reported on the AOL news feed said he had just taken his belt off as they got to the bend because it made him feel 'safer'.
Here's the quote:
"Mr Grimes said there was "no doubt in my mind for that bend, the vehicle was travelling too fast''. He said he believed the driver had been trying to make up lost time.
While they had been given safety warnings to put on their seat belts, he took his off at the approach to the bend because he thought it would be safer.
"I just did my best to spread myself across the window, which ended up saving me, the guy in the seat next to me and the guy in front of him,'' he said.
Personally, I dont thnk the media, or anyone else should be "Analysing" the incident prior to the incident being throughly investigated, its all too easy to point the finger of blaim.
For instance the claim he was going 80, they never said "I could see the speedometer and it was reading 80" But I would say that each and every passenger has the responsibility of wearing their seatbelt, I dont doubt that some injuries could have been reduced if they had all been wearing seatbelts.
Lets hope the injured make a speedy recovery, and the causes are readinly indentified and rectified.
For instance the claim he was going 80, they never said "I could see the speedometer and it was reading 80" But I would say that each and every passenger has the responsibility of wearing their seatbelt, I dont doubt that some injuries could have been reduced if they had all been wearing seatbelts.
Lets hope the injured make a speedy recovery, and the causes are readinly indentified and rectified.
vonhosen said:
hugoagogo said:
vonhosen said:
iainbrown said:
The bend is question, is well known in the police for lorries and large vehicles rolling over due to the bend. There is a bend that does the same going from south bound M25 to west bound M4. If the road is damp we pull cars out all the time, the signs to show a advisory limit of 40mph. Just have a look at the crash barriers to see how many times it has been done.
Surely if it was due to the bend & not how each vehicle driver drives it with regard to circumstances, every large vehicle would suffer the same fate.
surely if accidents were caused by speed every speeding driver would crash
Speed doesn't cause a collision, it can be a contributory factor (to varying degrees) in you being unable to avoid hitting something & also a factor in the severity of the outcome.
so exactly like poor design and/or construction of a road (or part therof) in that sense then
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