French deface British war graves
Discussion
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2907701.stm
French Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin has pleaded for trans-Atlantic tolerance after graffiti was daubed on a British war cemetery in northern France.
Slogans reading "Death to Yankees" and "Rosbeefs (Brits) go home" were painted on the central memorial in Etaples, near the Channel port of Boulogne in northern France.
The slogans also called for UK Prime Minister Tony Blair and US President George W Bush to be sent to the international criminal court in The Hague.
"Saddam Hussein will win and spill your blood", one slogan read.
Another claimed the graves were "contaminating" French soil.
Our disagreement with the British and American governments (on Iraq) can in no way justify any assault on the memory of men who sacrificed themselves for our country
Jack Lang
Former French minister
The graffiti appeared on 26 March - six days after the start of the war in Iraq, which France had fought to prevent.
Mr Raffarin, without making reference to the incident, pleaded on Tuesday for anti-American feeling to be restrained, calling displays of such sentiment "unacceptable".
"It is indispensable to be vigilant against all displays of anti-Americanism, which would be unacceptable," spokesman Jean-Francois Cope quoted Mr Raffarin as telling parliamentary leaders at a meeting on Tuesday.
The government should also be on guard for any signs of racism, anti-Semitism or xenophobia in the frequent protests against the war, Mr Cope quoted him as saying.
A judicial enquiry has been opened into the Etaples attack, which was condemned by senior French politicians.
Condemnation
"This violation of a burial place - scandalous in itself - is an attack on the memory of the sacrifice made by the British and American soldiers who contributed to the liberation of our soil," said the local member of parliament, former Socialist arts minister Jack Lang.
Mr Raffarin's warning was the latest in a series of comments apparently aimed at healing the deep rift with the US and UK which opened up over the Iraq crisis.
Mr Raffarin has already said that France is not an enemy of the United States, while the Foreign Ministry has issued a statement saying Paris hoped US-led forces would win the war in Iraq.
FRENCH OPINION
34% - support US-led forces
25% - support Iraq
31% - support neither side
Source: Le Monde/TF1 poll
As the government attempts to mend fences with Washington, public opinion appears to remain firmly against the war.
And in a poll published by Le Monde newspaper and TF1 television station on Monday, 25% of those questioned said they supported Iraq in the war. Only 34% of the 946 people questioned said they were "on the side" of the US-led forces.
Just over 30% said they supported neither side.
As public feelings continue to run high, the government is also worried that the frequent protests against the war could become a forum for anti-Semitism.
Figures released last week showed a big rise in racist and anti-Semitic activity since the 11 September attacks on the US.
Two French Jewish people were attacked at a recent anti-war protest in Paris.
Mr Raffarin's government "will not tolerate any racist, anti-Semitic or xenophobic acts," Mr Cope quoted him as saying.
The defaced Etaples cemetery is one of the biggest in northern France. Around 11,000 fallen British soldiers are buried there. It lies near the site of several wartime hospitals.
"We are pretty hacked off and I am pleased to say the French authorities are too," said Tim Reeves, of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission (CWGC).
I am very very angry about this. By all means lets disagree on things, but to defile the graves of our dead? Thats my camels back broken I'm afraid.
I propose a 3 point plan:
1, Bring the bodies of our brave men home and bury them in Albion, where they belong. Beyond the reach of those who so easily forget the sacrifices made on their behalf.
2, Leave the EU. Start up a new alliance with those EU countries who are also totally sick of the Franco German fraudfest we have at the moment (and there are lots), and align the new grouping with NAFTA.
3, Make it a part of our constitution that the next time France is invaded/attacked/needs help we simply reply with a polite "Non merci"
Andy 400se
I propose a 3 point plan:
1, Bring the bodies of our brave men home and bury them in Albion, where they belong. Beyond the reach of those who so easily forget the sacrifices made on their behalf.
2, Leave the EU. Start up a new alliance with those EU countries who are also totally sick of the Franco German fraudfest we have at the moment (and there are lots), and align the new grouping with NAFTA.
3, Make it a part of our constitution that the next time France is invaded/attacked/needs help we simply reply with a polite "Non merci"
Andy 400se
JMGS4 said:
mrs fish said:
Lisa, agreed, but I think you'll find it's some french arab who's done this, the area is VERY pro Brit!
Quite agree with John on this; in the south they'll lynch you and nick your keys as soon as look at you but near Flanders Field, why it's like the Henri Cinquieme Appreciation Massiv all over again.
Pack that in... What is truly sad is that the dimwit prick who graffitied "Rosbeefs go home" on the British war graves, obviously failed to understand that the British soldier at rest in the grave which recieved the graffiti forsook the opportunity to 'go home' in order to secure said dimwit-pricks future, in much the same way other British soldiers are doing the same in Iraq.
I think the French are taking a lot more abuse than we are..
the americans are boycotting a lot of french companies, and there is a risk of them loosing some very high profile defense deals...
alledgedly french fries have been renamed freedom fries... ( freedom for who im not sure)
also a french girl i know who has had an america pen pal since the age of 10 recently had an e-mail saying "
I carnt talk anymore you are to be considered out foe" WTF....
what has happened to the graves had no excuse but as usual its just a few extremists, ( and probably imigrants)
the americans are boycotting a lot of french companies, and there is a risk of them loosing some very high profile defense deals...
alledgedly french fries have been renamed freedom fries... ( freedom for who im not sure)
also a french girl i know who has had an america pen pal since the age of 10 recently had an e-mail saying "
I carnt talk anymore you are to be considered out foe" WTF....
what has happened to the graves had no excuse but as usual its just a few extremists, ( and probably imigrants)
There are good and bad in all nations and as a nation the French seem to be just as upset about the stupid vandalisation as we Brits are.
France, like GB, has an illustrious history but since 1815 (Waterloo) has ceased to be of any great military significance and is still seeking to position itself with dignity within a changing world. Lacking a clearly defined role the only real influence that French politicians can exert is via the veto, be it at European or United Nations level. Much as I love the French I see them as a grumpy old relative seeking to recapture a role that they have long since lost.I see it as a duty to try to understand and humour my old relatives.
Having said all of that they are not that dissimilar to we Brits and perhaps thats why we argue so much. Britain retained an Empire and a powerbase up until the Second World War. The sheer effort and cost of the war and the need, inspite of Churchill's patriotic obdurance to accede to the demands of the US if the war was to be won meant that British influence was greatly diminished and gradually we dissolved the Empire to assume a position more appropriate for a Nation of our size and resources.
In many ways we face a similar problem to that of France, we are still searching for a credible world role. The US does not need UK military resources to succeed in any campaign other than to add a possibly spurious respectability to what otherwise may be seen as an action of national arrogance. It does seem logical that, being part of the continent of Europe we should find our role as part of a European cooperation although we can currently see just how difficult that role will be. What other direction can we take? I love my country and I believe that inspite of our difficulties we have a basically just society. I have always believed that we could fill a role as 'Honest Brokers' to the world setting standards of fairness and humanity to act as a paradigm for less settled nations. Alligning ourselves with campaigns that do not have demonstrable 'world' support makes that role very difficult but I hope in the fullness of time we can regain the confidence of the broader community and move towards that role.
I fully appreciate that my dream is heavily tinged with idealism but you have to aim high if you are to achieve anything worthwhile. As for France what does the future hold for them? No doubt their current stance will garner short term popularity but in the longer term their objectivity has been severely damaged and I have no doubt that their influence, both in the extended EEC and the world in general will diminish until they fill a role similar to that of good old Belguim. Will they be happy in that role or with a fit of gallic histrionics will they leave the EEC in the same way as they pulled out of NATO? Much depends upon their leaders, it may look at the moment that it is the UK that is out of step with world opinion with France holding the Ace card but look to history, as LLoyd Grossman says 'the clues are all there'.
The current war will challenge more than just the administration of Saddam Hussain.
>> Edited by gnomesmith on Wednesday 2nd April 13:59
France, like GB, has an illustrious history but since 1815 (Waterloo) has ceased to be of any great military significance and is still seeking to position itself with dignity within a changing world. Lacking a clearly defined role the only real influence that French politicians can exert is via the veto, be it at European or United Nations level. Much as I love the French I see them as a grumpy old relative seeking to recapture a role that they have long since lost.I see it as a duty to try to understand and humour my old relatives.
Having said all of that they are not that dissimilar to we Brits and perhaps thats why we argue so much. Britain retained an Empire and a powerbase up until the Second World War. The sheer effort and cost of the war and the need, inspite of Churchill's patriotic obdurance to accede to the demands of the US if the war was to be won meant that British influence was greatly diminished and gradually we dissolved the Empire to assume a position more appropriate for a Nation of our size and resources.
In many ways we face a similar problem to that of France, we are still searching for a credible world role. The US does not need UK military resources to succeed in any campaign other than to add a possibly spurious respectability to what otherwise may be seen as an action of national arrogance. It does seem logical that, being part of the continent of Europe we should find our role as part of a European cooperation although we can currently see just how difficult that role will be. What other direction can we take? I love my country and I believe that inspite of our difficulties we have a basically just society. I have always believed that we could fill a role as 'Honest Brokers' to the world setting standards of fairness and humanity to act as a paradigm for less settled nations. Alligning ourselves with campaigns that do not have demonstrable 'world' support makes that role very difficult but I hope in the fullness of time we can regain the confidence of the broader community and move towards that role.
I fully appreciate that my dream is heavily tinged with idealism but you have to aim high if you are to achieve anything worthwhile. As for France what does the future hold for them? No doubt their current stance will garner short term popularity but in the longer term their objectivity has been severely damaged and I have no doubt that their influence, both in the extended EEC and the world in general will diminish until they fill a role similar to that of good old Belguim. Will they be happy in that role or with a fit of gallic histrionics will they leave the EEC in the same way as they pulled out of NATO? Much depends upon their leaders, it may look at the moment that it is the UK that is out of step with world opinion with France holding the Ace card but look to history, as LLoyd Grossman says 'the clues are all there'.
The current war will challenge more than just the administration of Saddam Hussain.
>> Edited by gnomesmith on Wednesday 2nd April 13:59
Supercharged said: Please tell me that isn't true about them changing the name of french fries to freedom fries!
I'd already heard they had, but presumed it was a joke!
No, Freedom Fries is true and also Freedom Bread, Freedom Toast, Freedom Kiss.
..and they were on about sending back the Statue of Liberty.
Superbly crafted post, Sir Kenvoltaire.
Frankly, I tend to agree with the sentiments contained therein.
Britain is/was/could (still) be one of the world's great diplomat states and many of our friends in the middle east are getting seriously peeved with us over this. (I know a geezer domiciled in Bahrain who is having to keep a preposterously low profile over this and you can forget sunny weekends at the Burj el Arab!)
But this is such a phenomenally difficult call for No.10 and to be honest, you do tend to wonder where we'd be if Zipper McClintoid was still servicing the secretariat pool in DC, do you not?
Yes Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Rhodesia et al are shockers but the longer it goes on, even founder members of the 'nuke em high' fraternity comme moi start to question the wisdom (on many, many levels) of this pre-emptive action.
What a firking mess.
Frankly, I tend to agree with the sentiments contained therein.
Britain is/was/could (still) be one of the world's great diplomat states and many of our friends in the middle east are getting seriously peeved with us over this. (I know a geezer domiciled in Bahrain who is having to keep a preposterously low profile over this and you can forget sunny weekends at the Burj el Arab!)
But this is such a phenomenally difficult call for No.10 and to be honest, you do tend to wonder where we'd be if Zipper McClintoid was still servicing the secretariat pool in DC, do you not?
Yes Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Rhodesia et al are shockers but the longer it goes on, even founder members of the 'nuke em high' fraternity comme moi start to question the wisdom (on many, many levels) of this pre-emptive action.
What a firking mess.
Come on chaps, that quote if from the local MP
This violation of a burial place - scandalous in itself - is an attack on the memory of the sacrifice made by the British and American soldiers who contributed to the liberation of our soil," said the local member of parliament, former Socialist arts minister Jack Lang.
The individual who did this, string him up. But demonise the whole country ? I think not
schueymcfee said:
Supercharged said: Please tell me that isn't true about them changing the name of french fries to freedom fries!
I'd already heard they had, but presumed it was a joke!
No, Freedom Fries is true and also Freedom Bread, Freedom Toast, Freedom Kiss.
..and they were on about sending back the Statue of Liberty.
Just re-read my last post, and it seems a like I am making light of what happened, with absolutley no respect for the soldiers, sorry if I offended.
I wasn't joking though it is actually true.
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