Am I missing the point????
Discussion
Lots of contributors on this site are clearly keen track day drivers. You buy manual instead of tip` and a GT3 rather than a turbo. Satnav makes the car too heavy (anyone here have that much talent to tell the difference??). Often, it is a second/third car and is not used as the daily motor but as a weekend and track toy. If It`s mostly about fun and speed/handling (surely it can`t be about much else!!) on the road and around the track why not get a Caterham, save £`s and wave as you go past the 911??
lots of reasons.
The 911 is a car you can use everyday for the commute, then spend the weekend hammering it around a track or crossing germany and back.
Yes, some people have them as second cars, especially when you get to the GT3 RS, which while capable of doing the commute, probably arent your spines best friend afterwards...
For me, the 911 is a unique drivers car, it requires a skill thats unique to it, and IMHO rewards so much more because of it.
The 911 is a car you can use everyday for the commute, then spend the weekend hammering it around a track or crossing germany and back.
Yes, some people have them as second cars, especially when you get to the GT3 RS, which while capable of doing the commute, probably arent your spines best friend afterwards...
For me, the 911 is a unique drivers car, it requires a skill thats unique to it, and IMHO rewards so much more because of it.
magic torch said:
The point I don't understand is that people seem to associate 'fun' and 'fastest lap time' as if they're the same thing.
TBH - it is a lot of fun tearing past everything else on a trackday. There's nothing quite like belting past the 'Ring Taxi to put a smile on your face. The arrival of Radicals sounded the death knell for me where Caterhams are concerned, as they made the old Caterham design seem terribly passe - though in terms of practicality and comfort, Radicals are to Caterhams as Caterhams are to Porsche. As was mentioned above, ideally it'd be nice to have a Porche and a Caterham.
loach said:
magic torch said:
The point I don't understand is that people seem to associate 'fun' and 'fastest lap time' as if they're the same thing.
TBH - it is a lot of fun tearing past everything else on a trackday. There's nothing quite like belting past the 'Ring Taxi to put a smile on your face. The arrival of Radicals sounded the death knell for me where Caterhams are concerned, as they made the old Caterham design seem terribly passe - though in terms of practicality and comfort, Radicals are to Caterhams as Caterhams are to Porsche. As was mentioned above, ideally it'd be nice to have a Porche and a Caterham.
Is it really fun? Strikes me as very tedious driving a radical on a track day. It's the only reason I can find for most of them flaunting trackday rules and doing people up the inside so often on corners.
Personally I don't see the appeal of a caterham. Horribly dated things. Now an Elise with an engine transplant, that holds some appeal...
I've found that driving something much faster than everyone else can be a frustrating affair, track or road.
What I enjoy is getting the best out of what you've got. It's the involvement with the car I like, I'm not fussed if I'm watching my mirrors or occupying someone else's. Though getting past supposed faster variants of your own car is enjoyable too.
An AGS F1 car was certainly the fastest I've ever driven. But it was fairly easy to drive, and therefore not the most fun I've had on a track.
I'm not knocking Caterhams, they're on the list.
What I enjoy is getting the best out of what you've got. It's the involvement with the car I like, I'm not fussed if I'm watching my mirrors or occupying someone else's. Though getting past supposed faster variants of your own car is enjoyable too.
An AGS F1 car was certainly the fastest I've ever driven. But it was fairly easy to drive, and therefore not the most fun I've had on a track.
I'm not knocking Caterhams, they're on the list.
DanH said:
Is it really fun? Strikes me as very tedious driving a radical on a track day. It's the only reason I can find for most of them flaunting trackday rules and doing people up the inside so often on corners.
Personally I don't see the appeal of a caterham. Horribly dated things. Now an Elise with an engine transplant, that holds some appeal...
I haven't tried a Radical on a trackday, so couldn't say. It must be a bit tedious for the Radical drivers, though - they are ridiculously quick. I've had a couple of Elises, and they are brilliant - involving and fluid. But a Caterham has an appeal all of its own. They are tiny, ferocious, incredibly direct, agile enough to make even a Lotus feel slow-witted, and they are unbelievably good fun to drive. They may be dated, but they have everything you need - there's a roof to keep you dry, a heater to keep you warm, a huge power to weight ratio (if you've an SLR or an R400 or better), the best steering to be found on any road car, mighty brakes and forgiving handling with high limits.
Compromised? Yes - they're about as comfy as tight leather knickers. But with cars these days absolutely full of themselves, and ready to boss you around the road via their electronic helpers and numpty crapology, it's nice to hop into a Caterham and remind yourself what driving can be like when distilled to its essence.
PetrolTed said:
I hired a Caterham before Christmas and drove at Donington. Great fun, but as I was getting absolutely soaked in the peeing rain, I looked in my mirror and saw a chap drifting around Redgate in a GT3 RS. I'd rather have been in his seat... 
Common problem. Caterhams can be a bit 'time and a place'. I headed out on the 'Ring for one of many laps during one of many weekends there, and about a mile in, it started to rain. Then it satarted to really rain. Then it rained so hard that it just fell in sheets. Then the sheets became mattresses. I have never before or since been so wet, cold, miserable or scared. I could see nothing forward or back, and had to tiptoe around 20 kilometers of racetrack off the racing line and listening for the approach of other cars. It dried out later, and I was one of the fastest things out there again - sort of sums up the Caterham experience. Giddy highs, and miserable lows.
so, that kinda answers the OP question.
The point of the 911 isnt that its as fast as a caterham on a track day (because its not), but that it not only is 90% as much fun on a dry track day, but 150% more fun on a wet track day (by the sounds of things) AND its a car you can use everyday of the week as well, with 12,000 mile service intervals, leather seats and aircon...
The point of the 911 isnt that its as fast as a caterham on a track day (because its not), but that it not only is 90% as much fun on a dry track day, but 150% more fun on a wet track day (by the sounds of things) AND its a car you can use everyday of the week as well, with 12,000 mile service intervals, leather seats and aircon...
Edited by Fidgits on Sunday 7th January 19:29
PetrolTed said:
I hired a Caterham before Christmas and drove at Donington. Great fun, but as I was getting absolutely soaked in the peeing rain, I looked in my mirror and saw a chap drifting around Redgate in a GT3 RS. I'd rather have been in his seat...
And to think they were hoping for rain on the PH slalom day....
I've got a Porsche and a bike, it's a good compromise
Getting into a GT3, heading down to the Euro-tunnel using your sat nav, while listening to your favorite cd.
Head down to Sourthern France, drive some lovely roads, head over into the alps, maybe up into Italy, then have some Fun on Stelvio Pass.
After that enjoy cruising around the cities, bit of shopping, nice nite club.
Head into Germany for the Black Forest, and of course 180mph+ on the auto barhns.
Off course then a weekend at the Nurburgring, setting some lovely times.
Then head off home.
I'm sure you could fit enough luggage in.
You wouldnt be able to do that in a pure track car.
Head down to Sourthern France, drive some lovely roads, head over into the alps, maybe up into Italy, then have some Fun on Stelvio Pass.
After that enjoy cruising around the cities, bit of shopping, nice nite club.
Head into Germany for the Black Forest, and of course 180mph+ on the auto barhns.
Off course then a weekend at the Nurburgring, setting some lovely times.
Then head off home.
I'm sure you could fit enough luggage in.
You wouldnt be able to do that in a pure track car.
had a share in a 2 litre westfield for about 2 years while I had my GT3 and an integra.
It was fun and certainly gave quite a buzz, but as has already been said..the weather is a killer. Forget about using the hood, all they do is reduce visibility. and steam up the windows.
It was very cheap to run, and great fun to drive, but it wasnt in the same league as the GT3 in virtually every aspect.
Plus, and I knew from plenty of friends with caterhams and westfields, they are relatively unreliable. Perhaps its something to do with being more exposed to elements, or using small engines that are very highly tuned.
Ours came back home on AA flat bed trucks too many times.
You also spend most of your time fooling yourself into thinking they are safe, because other drivers take notice of you etc, but once you get within 5 feet of the back wheels of an 18 ton artic, lorry that hasnt seen you, it sharpens the senses somewhat.
If my garage space was ever big enough, I would have a hankering for a cat.r300, but right now its a case of been there done that.
As for on track performance, (Kay c will like this bit)...there is something about the GT3 on the track that feel so perfect.
So much so that I cant be bothered with seeking out good roads anymore. Its a great road car on decent roads, but not on poor ones. But on the track its totally different. Once tyre temp and brakes are warmed up, it feels like a racing car and performs so much better than any other road or track car I ve ever driven or owned.
All IMHO of course.
It was fun and certainly gave quite a buzz, but as has already been said..the weather is a killer. Forget about using the hood, all they do is reduce visibility. and steam up the windows.
It was very cheap to run, and great fun to drive, but it wasnt in the same league as the GT3 in virtually every aspect.
Plus, and I knew from plenty of friends with caterhams and westfields, they are relatively unreliable. Perhaps its something to do with being more exposed to elements, or using small engines that are very highly tuned.
Ours came back home on AA flat bed trucks too many times.
You also spend most of your time fooling yourself into thinking they are safe, because other drivers take notice of you etc, but once you get within 5 feet of the back wheels of an 18 ton artic, lorry that hasnt seen you, it sharpens the senses somewhat.
If my garage space was ever big enough, I would have a hankering for a cat.r300, but right now its a case of been there done that.
As for on track performance, (Kay c will like this bit)...there is something about the GT3 on the track that feel so perfect.
So much so that I cant be bothered with seeking out good roads anymore. Its a great road car on decent roads, but not on poor ones. But on the track its totally different. Once tyre temp and brakes are warmed up, it feels like a racing car and performs so much better than any other road or track car I ve ever driven or owned.
All IMHO of course.
Edited by peterpeter on Sunday 7th January 20:33
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