Thumb up/thumb down gear changing?
Discussion
Hi all
I read something in this forum last week, and now unfortunately can't find it, and have been waiting for an opportunity to post this question since reading it.
Somebody mentioned in an IAM/Roadcraft discussion about the way you hold the gearstick and that your thumb's position was important depending on what particular gear change you are making?
I've never seen/heard/read discussions on this subject so my first question really is, what's the technique?
Thanks
Tony
I read something in this forum last week, and now unfortunately can't find it, and have been waiting for an opportunity to post this question since reading it.
Somebody mentioned in an IAM/Roadcraft discussion about the way you hold the gearstick and that your thumb's position was important depending on what particular gear change you are making?
I've never seen/heard/read discussions on this subject so my first question really is, what's the technique?
Thanks
Tony
I think it is all about how you hold the gearstick to make the change easier/smoother: for 'up and to the right' changes (e.g. 2nd to 3rd) cup the gear lever on it's left side with your thumb upwards; for 'down and to the left' changes (e.g. 5th to 4th) cup the gear lever on top or right hand side with your thumb pointing downwards.
This allows your wrist to be in a more natural position to efficiently make the movement for the change. I suspect most people do this natutally, but it is worth checking!
This allows your wrist to be in a more natural position to efficiently make the movement for the change. I suspect most people do this natutally, but it is worth checking!
Of course this applies to RHD cars changing with the left hand; description is reversed for the (superior) LHD cars ...
Ahhh I see what you mean. As you say I suspect many would do that naturally - though I have seen some very odd holdings-of-gearsticks.
A lot would depend though, surely, on the car/gearstick combination? A koeniggsegg CC8 with it's mega high close-to-driver positioning is very different to that of, say, a Ford KA where you must practically reach down to get the gearstick because its so low?!
Thanks for the explanation Mr C (oh, and did you get my text? Love the write up!)
A lot would depend though, surely, on the car/gearstick combination? A koeniggsegg CC8 with it's mega high close-to-driver positioning is very different to that of, say, a Ford KA where you must practically reach down to get the gearstick because its so low?!
Thanks for the explanation Mr C (oh, and did you get my text? Love the write up!)
The critical point imo is that you push agaionst the gearstick to move it in the direction you want it to move (i.e. diagonally through the gate) rather than grip it firmly and move your hand through a 'Z' shaped path. The 'thumb up/thumb down' approach encourages you to push against the gear knob rather than take hold of it.
GreenV8S said:
The critical point imo is that you push agaionst the gearstick to move it in the direction you want it to move (i.e. diagonally through the gate) rather than grip it firmly and move your hand through a 'Z' shaped path. The 'thumb up/thumb down' approach encourages you to push against the gear knob rather than take hold of it.
I don't think I've ever made much use of the 'apply diagonal pressure' technique - for the most part I've tended to make it three distinct actions if going across the gate. Even so, I think I can do gear changes fairly quickly and with reasonable smoothness most of the time. In any case, if we're double declutching for a down change, do we not need to separate the movements anyhow, rather than trying to shoot straight through with the diagonal pressure?
Best wishes all,
Dave.
I did this (thumb up/thumb down) in my test last Saturday, and my ex-cop examiner said at the end "who taught you to change gear like that? You don't need to do that on modern cars like this. I bet it was a really old guy". basically said it was totally unnecessary.
His point being that unless you have some kind of crappy old austin allegro type thing, you're better off just getting hold of the stick properly
I still do it tho.
His point being that unless you have some kind of crappy old austin allegro type thing, you're better off just getting hold of the stick properly
I still do it tho.
jeremyc said:
I think it is all about how you hold the gearstick to make the change easier/smoother: for 'up and to the right' changes (e.g. 2nd to 3rd) cup the gear lever on it's left side with your thumb upwards; for 'down and to the left' changes (e.g. 5th to 4th) cup the gear lever on top or right hand side with your thumb pointing downwards.
This allows your wrist to be in a more natural position to efficiently make the movement for the change. I suspect most people do this natutally, but it is worth checking!
This allows your wrist to be in a more natural position to efficiently make the movement for the change. I suspect most people do this natutally, but it is worth checking!
That's somewhat different to the technique that has been shown to me. This is how I described it in the other thread:
SamHH said:
The technique I've been taught is to wrap my fingers round the front of the gear-stick with my palm facing away from me and my thumb pointing down for gears that require you to push the stick to the left of its natural resting point (1st and 2nd in my car), or my palm facing towards me and my thumb pointing up for gears that require you to push the stick to the right (5th in my car) or for gears that don't require you to push the stick left or right (3rd and 4th in my car). That is all assuming the gear-stick is to the left of the driver.
That means that if you are selecting second for example, you use the thumb down grip regardless of what gear you are coming from, first, third, fourth, whatever.
It was presented to me not as a way to make the change smoother or easier, but as a way of preventing a mis-selected gear. At first I found it very difficult and made quite a few mis-selections. I'm getting the hang of it now but it doesn't feel entirely natural.
There is also the benefit that, for some changes, it forces you to think about what gear you are going to select before you grip the gear stick.
I'm surprised that it isn't well known by all 'advanced' drivers. I've been told that I must use this method in the IAM test so I guessed that it is taught to all IAM and ROADA people. Obviously not.
Silentz - it's interesting to read that your examiner thinks it unnecessary. The IAM examiner in my area obviously thinks otherwise, and I've read the Pistonheader vonhosen saying that all police drivers are taught this technique so they must see value in it. I'm not convinced that it is better than my previous technique, but it is no worse so for now I'll believe the drivers who say it is better. Why will you continue to use it?
Edited by SamHH on Monday 8th January 17:13
I'll probably continue to use it because i've yet to miss a gear change with it
How to explain that better?
Probably by saying that a change from, say 5th to 3rd is now pull-release-push (using the spring on the box, rather than a sort of U shaped "guiding the stick into the new position" movement like I did before, which I found prone to the occasional crunch when you thought the new gear had engaged and brought the clutch up.
I don't see the advantage of returning to a "grabbing the stick" style.
How to explain that better?
Probably by saying that a change from, say 5th to 3rd is now pull-release-push (using the spring on the box, rather than a sort of U shaped "guiding the stick into the new position" movement like I did before, which I found prone to the occasional crunch when you thought the new gear had engaged and brought the clutch up.
I don't see the advantage of returning to a "grabbing the stick" style.
SamHH said:
The technique I've been taught is to wrap my fingers round the front of the gear-stick with my palm facing away from me and my thumb pointing down for gears that require you to push the stick to the left of its natural resting point (1st and 2nd in my car), or my palm facing towards me and my thumb pointing up for gears that require you to push the stick to the right (5th in my car) or for gears that don't require you to push the stick left or right (3rd and 4th in my car). That is all assuming the gear-stick is to the left of the driver.
That means that if you are selecting second for example, you use the thumb down grip regardless of what gear you are coming from, first, third, fourth, whatever.
It was presented to me not as a way to make the change smoother or easier, but as a way of preventing a mis-selected gear. At first I found it very difficult and made quite a few mis-selections. I'm getting the hang of it now but it doesn't feel entirely natural.
There is also the benefit that, for some changes, it forces you to think about what gear you are going to select before you grip the gear stick.
I'm surprised that it isn't well known by all 'advanced' drivers. I've been told that I must use this method in the IAM test so I guessed that it is taught to all IAM and ROADA people. Obviously not.
Silentz - it's interesting to read that your examiner thinks it unnecessary. The IAM examiner in my area obviously thinks otherwise, and I've read the Pistonheader vonhosen saying that all police drivers are taught this technique so they must see value in it. I'm not convinced that it is better than my previous technique, but it is no worse so for now I'll believe the drivers who say it is better. Why will you continue to use it?
Yep the method described by SamHH is exactly the method used and taught.
For a good demo and explanation watch the Roadcraft video from a Hendon response course.
Also it really helps to get accurate changes when jumping in and out of left and right hookers all the time.
SamHH said:
Combover said:
What about changes on the 3-4 axis? In terms of hand posiion on the gearknob?
Thumb up.
Key issue is, pushing away from you against the spring loading = thumb down.
anything else thumb up, but with a firm grip ie none of this fingertip hold and flicking the gear lever stuff.
SamHH said:
Combover said:
What about changes on the 3-4 axis? In terms of hand posiion on the gearknob?
Thumb up.
I was taught to put my thumb down for the 3rd to 4th shift and thumb up for the 4th to 3rd shift.
3rd-4th: The position of my hand in what can only be described as a 'hello sailor' way, shifting the gear lever backwards (in my car) with my fingers held rigid, pointing downwards. Top of the gearknob about halfway down my fingers.
4th-3rd: Palm pushing the lever towards 3rd, fingers pointing upwards, letting the gearknob settle in the depression in my palm.
Acceptable?
DocJock said:
Combover said:
Acceptable?
Why do you feel the need to seek approval for the way you manipulate a stick in a single plane ?
Nobody on this board is better placed than you to decide what is the 'best' way.
Why stop there ?
Why does anyone need to seek approval for anything ?
Why is anybody on this board better placed to decide on what is 'best' regard any aspect of driving ?
Be careful with 'thumb down' changes ...
Acceptable?
Not to my physio, no, who disapproved of 'thumb down' gear changes. The biomechanics of thumb down aren't good and, in my case, eventually caused shoulder problems that required a fair bit of physiotherapy
and I had to unlearn 'thumb down' ...
(Incidentally, John Lyon never used thumb up/down, for what it's worth.)
Combover said:
Acceptable?
Not to my physio, no, who disapproved of 'thumb down' gear changes. The biomechanics of thumb down aren't good and, in my case, eventually caused shoulder problems that required a fair bit of physiotherapy
and I had to unlearn 'thumb down' ... (Incidentally, John Lyon never used thumb up/down, for what it's worth.)
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