Performance difference T350 & Sag
Performance difference T350 & Sag
Author
Discussion

scotty1

Original Poster:

477 posts

246 months

Sunday 14th January 2007
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Afternoon,

Anyone got any vids showing the difference in performance between the Sag and T350, I know the printed figures but has anyone driven both and if so whats your opinion ??

TIA

Lensey

2,526 posts

313 months

Sunday 14th January 2007
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Hi Scott,

You tempted by a Sag now

scotty1

Original Poster:

477 posts

246 months

Sunday 14th January 2007
quotequote all
Lensey said:
Hi Scott,

You tempted by a Sag now


Hi Mate,

yeah thinking about a bit more ooomph , but don't know how much more I would realistically get from a SAG ??



AlexRWD

1,254 posts

267 months

Sunday 14th January 2007
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scotty1 said:
thinking about a bit more ooomph , but don't know how much more I would realistically get from a SAG ??


Haven't driven a Sag, but I wouldn't have thought there would be much difference in performance, bearing in mind TVR revised their power fig for the Sag to 380.

Prob only worth changing if you preferred the general suspension setup of the Sag, otherwise you may as well just look into increasing the power on your car, like Lensey's motor.



Edited by AlexRWD on Sunday 14th January 20:06

Fly Boy

1,282 posts

271 months

Sunday 14th January 2007
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Try PM'ing Daftlad- He's had both....

FB

garthd

31 posts

255 months

Monday 15th January 2007
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I was torn between the T350 and Sag and was asking the same question. Feedback I got was that the Sag feels more planted but that the 350 'feels' quicker and has more direct steering. Confused??? So was I, and a test drive didn't help either as I simply thought they were both blinking quick.

IMO they both shift and for me it came down to styling preferences. Sorry, no videos

XTR2Turbo

1,538 posts

261 months

Monday 15th January 2007
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T350 will be quicker above 100 on a straight because it does not have the aerodynamic brakes fitted to the Sagaris. Sagaris quicker around twisties.

the pits

4,290 posts

270 months

Monday 15th January 2007
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having owned both for a time I can confirm that the Sagaris is quicker in a straight line, as it should be. But the difference isn't huge, which is as it shouldn't be. The 4.0S engine has a little more power all the way from 4k to 7500. It's not a great heap but it's there and the 4 litre gets going earlier at 4k as opposed to 5k for the 3.6. I think the 3.6s are allowed to rev a little higher so they claw a bit back there as you can hold on to a gear a little longer. So overall there is definitely a difference but it's not huge. Again quite as it should be. The Sagaris is more confidence inspiring which allows/encourages you to push on a bit more and its composure makes it feel not quite as fast as it is, so you go quicker but don't notice it quite so much which adds to the feeling of it not being much quicker. As for being meaningfully quicker A-B down a country lane, I'm not sure. You need a huge performance advantage in the real world to dust a committed hot hatch.

s5tvr

1,239 posts

263 months

Monday 15th January 2007
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Straight-line speed I would have thought is dependent on the state of tune of the engine and that between individual cars there would be little difference between a T350 in a good state of tune and a Sag in a poor state of tune. On the bendy bits I would have thought a set of Nitrons or Protechs or something similar could bring the T350's handling up to that of the Sag.

s5tvr

1,239 posts

263 months

Monday 15th January 2007
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A question for Lensey. Have you had your 4.0 red rose engine dyno'd ?. Also, am I right in thinking it was a TVR Power conversion and how does the 4.0 compare to the old 3.6 ?.

Lensey

2,526 posts

313 months

Monday 15th January 2007
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I bought the car when all the work had been done (Power) so I don't really know what the 3.6 was like? I had a re-map at Austec and the graphs are here

scotty1

Original Poster:

477 posts

246 months

Monday 15th January 2007
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thanks for all the comments, it seems from what people have said its more about improvements in quality of handling and ride...I guess that leaves any decision about moving to a Sag hinging on the better handling and different styling rather than major gains in power.....

bobd

973 posts

250 months

Friday 19th January 2007
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Interesting figures Lensey. The comment I had pre -dyno run, was that it didnt matter what TVR it was East Coast Customs ( fastest EVO6 in World and celebrated engine Tuners)had never had a TVR of any type ever produce over 305 bhp on their dyno. I was very pleased therefore that my 3.6 produces 338 bhp in a superb power curve. Heath Briggs always said that my car had a really good engine, and he was right. In my view and in the view of some recognised engineers the T350 is as quick and even quicker top end, but doesnt handle as well in standard set up. A good set of dampers, ride height setting and corner weighting transforms totally the T350 into a weapon. I have also had the arches sorted on my car and it is running the same tyre dimensions as a Sagaris. The diff ratio also makes a difference as all 350,s were fitted with a 3:9 diff. 3:7 could be specced for an additional £1400. Standard box and 3:7 diff gives blistering acceleration even in a Tamora. Therefore a well set up Tamora has the ability to leave a Sagaris standing. Even more so on undulating terrain where the Sag will have left half the front splitter all over the road.As usual its horses for courses- and we have also to think of the aesthetics of the vehicle.

Daftlad

3,324 posts

271 months

Friday 19th January 2007
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bobd said:
Interesting figures Lensey. The comment I had pre -dyno run, was that it didnt matter what TVR it was East Coast Customs ( fastest EVO6 in World and celebrated engine Tuners)had never had a TVR of any type ever produce over 305 bhp on their dyno. I was very pleased therefore that my 3.6 produces 338 bhp in a superb power curve. Heath Briggs always said that my car had a really good engine, and he was right. In my view and in the view of some recognised engineers the T350 is as quick and even quicker top end, but doesnt handle as well in standard set up. A good set of dampers, ride height setting and corner weighting transforms totally the T350 into a weapon. I have also had the arches sorted on my car and it is running the same tyre dimensions as a Sagaris. The diff ratio also makes a difference as all 350,s were fitted with a 3:9 diff. 3:7 could be specced for an additional £1400. Standard box and 3:7 diff gives blistering acceleration even in a Tamora. Therefore a well set up Tamora has the ability to leave a Sagaris standing. Even more so on undulating terrain where the Sag will have left half the front splitter all over the road.As usual its horses for courses- and we have also to think of the aesthetics of the vehicle.

Lenseys figures are interseting for the wrong reasons I'm afraid, but they show how easy it is to "fake" power increases.

Your comments on the diff rations are a bit suspect, T350s and Tamoras were never fitted with 3.9 diffs as standard. They were 3.4 ish with a 3.7 if you went for the CR box option. You seem to suggest a drop from 3.9 to 3.7 would give better acceleration - which is again not quite true.

A standard Tamora is a very good car, and as I have said many times before, the best TVR straight out of the box, but it wont leave a Sagaris standing without some very serious expenditure. (We have a very well sorted blue printed 4.0 Tamora at home in the garage so I know this to be true )

Hope thats not all too negative, but we need to get facts right before folklore takes over.

vikingt350c

244 posts

239 months

Friday 19th January 2007
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just had decatt and remap by dulford and now the t350 is pushing out 399bhp proven. back to back with sag the t350 is so much faster.

hollowpockets

5,910 posts

246 months

Friday 19th January 2007
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what would be the best set up box and diff wise overall? my car is standard, with 343BHP proven, rather than do anything engine wise i'd be interested in how a change of diff could improve acceleration.

whitey

2,508 posts

314 months

Friday 19th January 2007
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vikingt350c said:
just had decatt and remap by dulford and now the t350 is pushing out 399bhp proven. back to back with sag the t350 is so much faster.


Got the print outs? How much was the remap? which dyno was it on?

bobd

973 posts

250 months

Friday 19th January 2007
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Dear Daftlad,
my apologies in my enthusiasm the ratio of 3:9 was incorrect and you were indeed correct. The difference between a diff ratio of 3:4 and 3:7 is understood by me. Too many beers! However my car was fitted with the 3:7 diff and the close ratio box was fitted at a later date. I do therefore know the difference between the diff and gearbox combinations.
All the best anyway mate.


Edited by bobd on Friday 19th January 15:00

s5tvr

1,239 posts

263 months

Friday 19th January 2007
quotequote all
vikingt350c said:
just had decatt and remap by dulford and now the t350 is pushing out 399bhp proven.


That can't be a standard 3.6 engine you've got, even a 4.0 S spec engine would struggle to produce a genuine 400bhp. I assume your car has been modified in some way as I think I'm correct in saying that a re-map alone is not going to take you from 350bhp to 399bhp.

Daftlad

3,324 posts

271 months

Friday 19th January 2007
quotequote all
bobd said:
Dear Daftlad,
my apologies in my enthusiasm the ratio of 3:9 was incorrect and you were indeed correct. The difference between a diff ratio of 3:4 and 3:7 is understood by me. Too many beers! However my car was fitted with the 3:7 diff and the close ratio box was fitted at a later date. I do therefore know the difference between the diff and gearbox combinations.
All the best anyway mate.


Edited by bobd on Friday 19th January 15:00

No problem. beer