Question for Hollywood Wheels
Discussion
HW your 2nd post in this thread:
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=2&f=23&t=344953&h=0
Made a lot of sense - you explained the problem from another side.
But your comment "And please everyone, no comments about speeding tickets etc, that's the TRAFFIC Police who deal with TRAFFIC." got me wondering.
What is the numbers of Traffic Police v the numbers of normal (or whatever they are called!) Police.
I assume it will vary from area to area.
In Lincolnshire we appear to have more and more Community Support Officers than normal Police, but also appear to have far more TP than CSO & Normal Police put together
Or am I right in thinking that when TP are out they are 'targeting' their recourse so you tend to see more together?
Hope you don't mind me asking you but I was impressed by the above mentioned post and also intrigued by it
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=2&f=23&t=344953&h=0
Made a lot of sense - you explained the problem from another side.
But your comment "And please everyone, no comments about speeding tickets etc, that's the TRAFFIC Police who deal with TRAFFIC." got me wondering.
What is the numbers of Traffic Police v the numbers of normal (or whatever they are called!) Police.
I assume it will vary from area to area.
In Lincolnshire we appear to have more and more Community Support Officers than normal Police, but also appear to have far more TP than CSO & Normal Police put together
Or am I right in thinking that when TP are out they are 'targeting' their recourse so you tend to see more together?
Hope you don't mind me asking you but I was impressed by the above mentioned post and also intrigued by it
vonhosen said:
It will vary area to area.
Nationally the average number of trafpol out of full strength is about 5%.
In the Met it's about 1.5%
Some of the provincial forces combine trafpol with other roles such as armed response though, where as the Met do not.
Nationally the average number of trafpol out of full strength is about 5%.
In the Met it's about 1.5%
Some of the provincial forces combine trafpol with other roles such as armed response though, where as the Met do not.
Armed response trafpol eh?
I'm off to buy a diesel landrover, slowest thing I can think of!
Steve....some numbers for you. Met Traffic currently employ 680 Officers at six bases. That's a much lower figure than I think most people expect.
The main aims of the Traffic Dept are:
1. Deny criminals use of the roads by enforcing the law.
2. Reduce road casualities.
3. Tackle the threat of terrorism.
4. Reduce anti-social use of the roads.
5. Enhance public confidence and reassurance by patrolling the roads.
6. Attend and investigate all fatal collisions.
I may have a humourous 'dig' at traffic every now and again, but the fact remains that you're pretty unlucky to be 'pulled' for speeding by Traffic Officers in London. They're spread very thinly. Certainly in my experience, when they are assigned to patrol certain Boroughs, they are more than happy to roll their sleeves up and help with core Policing, which is, and always has been, their most important role. They are highly trained Officers. Yes, they can sometimes be seen congregating (for want of a better word!) at ANPR sites etc, or set sites for speed enforcement, but these are normally intelligence led, pre-planned operations with specific set targets (in terms of what they are looking for, not numbers of tickets dished out). Hope this is of interest....
HW
The main aims of the Traffic Dept are:
1. Deny criminals use of the roads by enforcing the law.
2. Reduce road casualities.
3. Tackle the threat of terrorism.
4. Reduce anti-social use of the roads.
5. Enhance public confidence and reassurance by patrolling the roads.
6. Attend and investigate all fatal collisions.
I may have a humourous 'dig' at traffic every now and again, but the fact remains that you're pretty unlucky to be 'pulled' for speeding by Traffic Officers in London. They're spread very thinly. Certainly in my experience, when they are assigned to patrol certain Boroughs, they are more than happy to roll their sleeves up and help with core Policing, which is, and always has been, their most important role. They are highly trained Officers. Yes, they can sometimes be seen congregating (for want of a better word!) at ANPR sites etc, or set sites for speed enforcement, but these are normally intelligence led, pre-planned operations with specific set targets (in terms of what they are looking for, not numbers of tickets dished out). Hope this is of interest....
HW
"1980 Met Traffic officers = 1500
Feb 2004 638 (just 375 actually on road policing duties)
50 short of target roll call, additional 20 in the recruitment process.
Out of those 375, cover is provided for major sporting & cultural events. eg 30-40 every Saturday during footy season, 24 for rugby matches @ Twickers, & e.g.150 for Notting Hill Carnival.
Of the remainder 138 are sergeants and inspectors in supervisory roles and 125 are dedicated fatal accident investigators"
Feb 2004 638 (just 375 actually on road policing duties)
50 short of target roll call, additional 20 in the recruitment process.
Out of those 375, cover is provided for major sporting & cultural events. eg 30-40 every Saturday during footy season, 24 for rugby matches @ Twickers, & e.g.150 for Notting Hill Carnival.
Of the remainder 138 are sergeants and inspectors in supervisory roles and 125 are dedicated fatal accident investigators"
Hollywood,
Very interesting info from you and others,
Many thanks for taking the time and trouble.
Must admit I was quite surprised by the figure you quoted and by the 5% average that Von quotes.
As you point out when Traffic Officers are at a ANPR site there does seem to be lot of them!
Von - thanks.
cuneus - "just 375 actually on road policing duties" to cover 24 hours, take off meal breaks etc. and I'm suprised anyone in London sees a Traffic Officer!
.........................
So given the numbers quoted I'll throw a question to all the BiB on here......
It has been said that the way the motorist is treated by the Police is one reason for the decline in the publics respect for the Poilce. So would like to see two different sets of Police such as they have in some other countries where traffic is not connected to core policing?
Very interesting info from you and others,
Many thanks for taking the time and trouble.
Must admit I was quite surprised by the figure you quoted and by the 5% average that Von quotes.
As you point out when Traffic Officers are at a ANPR site there does seem to be lot of them!
Von - thanks.
cuneus - "just 375 actually on road policing duties" to cover 24 hours, take off meal breaks etc. and I'm suprised anyone in London sees a Traffic Officer!
.........................
So given the numbers quoted I'll throw a question to all the BiB on here......
It has been said that the way the motorist is treated by the Police is one reason for the decline in the publics respect for the Poilce. So would like to see two different sets of Police such as they have in some other countries where traffic is not connected to core policing?
skeggysteve said:
So given the numbers quoted I'll throw a question to all the BiB on here......
It has been said that the way the motorist is treated by the Police is one reason for the decline in the publics respect for the Poilce. So would like to see two different sets of Police such as they have in some other countries where traffic is not connected to core policing?
It has been said that the way the motorist is treated by the Police is one reason for the decline in the publics respect for the Poilce. So would like to see two different sets of Police such as they have in some other countries where traffic is not connected to core policing?
It's very interesting to see the way that the PCSO situation is developing. Personally I think that it is the start of a two-tier type of Policing. Not saying that it's good or bad as I can't quite decide yet, and will watch with interest as this develops.
I must be honest and say it makes me chuckle when people talk about Police speed enforcement making people lose respect for Police. We've already seen and discussed the dwindling (and sometimes non existent!) numbers of trafpol on the roads. I don't associate yellow boxes and scamera vans with what I do at all, though I do of course see the connection between them and local constabs.
I dunno........maybe because I've never had (and never want to) have anything to do with speed enforcement, it's a kind of alien concept to me and probably 99.9% of coppers. Unfortunately it's often the only side of Policing that normal members of the public see, hence the disproportionate reaction of some....
skeggysteve said:
So given the numbers quoted I'll throw a question to all the BiB on here......
It has been said that the way the motorist is treated by the Police is one reason for the decline in the publics respect for the Poilce. So would like to see two different sets of Police such as they have in some other countries where traffic is not connected to core policing?
Highways Agency Traffic Officers
vonhosen said:
skeggysteve said:
So given the numbers quoted I'll throw a question to all the BiB on here......
It has been said that the way the motorist is treated by the Police is one reason for the decline in the publics respect for the Poilce. So would like to see two different sets of Police such as they have in some other countries where traffic is not connected to core policing?
Highways Agency Traffic Officers
I don't know the figures, but a few years ago I was told that Lincolnshire had the highest proportion of traffic police of any force in the country. The excuse for this was that bugger all else used to happen in Lincs so they spent all their time persecuting motorists.
Then somebody had the idea of cameras......
Then somebody had the idea of cameras......
Hollywood Wheels said:
It's very interesting to see the way that the PCSO situation is developing. Personally I think that it is the start of a two-tier type of Policing. Not saying that it's good or bad as I can't quite decide yet, and will watch with interest as this develops.
I must be honest and say it makes me chuckle when people talk about Police speed enforcement making people lose respect for Police. We've already seen and discussed the dwindling (and sometimes non existent!) numbers of trafpol on the roads. I don't associate yellow boxes and scamera vans with what I do at all, though I do of course see the connection between them and local constabs.
I dunno........maybe because I've never had (and never want to) have anything to do with speed enforcement, it's a kind of alien concept to me and probably 99.9% of coppers. Unfortunately it's often the only side of Policing that normal members of the public see, hence the disproportionate reaction of some....
Hollywood,
I'm also unsure about the way the PCSO situation is developing. The cynic in me is inclined to see it as 'policing on the cheap'. But the 'member of the public' in me likes to see the 'police' presents on the streets.
I wasn't taking about Traf Pol just in reference to speeding but their overall role - one example for you.
I was moaned at by a member of the public when 2 Traf pol were pulling people up for not wearing a seatbelt/incorrectly spaced No. plates and using a mobile while driving. This was happening outside our shop and the member of the public commented that they could do that but had not been round to the local school that had a been broken into last night - this was about 11am the following morning.
I know that Traf pol have there job and break ins is not on the list but to a member of the public it just looks bad. Management to blame?
So if, and I stress if, Traf pol in such small number are causing a 'problem' for core policing would it not be better to completely separate the two?
Very good point about most peoples only contact with the Police is via there car - more PR training needed? !
Thanks again for your time,
Steve
vonhosen said:
Highways Agency Traffic Officers
Von,
As I don't travel out of Lincolnshire that often I saw them for the first time a few weeks ago. Just Googled and found a very interesting
quote from The Highways Agency web site:
Traffic officers assists motorists at following scenes:
* Motor vehicle accidents
* Removing damaged and abandoned vehicles
* Clearing debris on carriageways
* Undertaking high visibility patrols
* Providing mobile/temporary road closures
* Supporting police in their duties
..................
They sound a good idea to me.
Steve
skeggysteve said:
Hollywood Wheels said:
It's very interesting to see the way that the PCSO situation is developing. Personally I think that it is the start of a two-tier type of Policing. Not saying that it's good or bad as I can't quite decide yet, and will watch with interest as this develops.
I must be honest and say it makes me chuckle when people talk about Police speed enforcement making people lose respect for Police. We've already seen and discussed the dwindling (and sometimes non existent!) numbers of trafpol on the roads. I don't associate yellow boxes and scamera vans with what I do at all, though I do of course see the connection between them and local constabs.
I dunno........maybe because I've never had (and never want to) have anything to do with speed enforcement, it's a kind of alien concept to me and probably 99.9% of coppers. Unfortunately it's often the only side of Policing that normal members of the public see, hence the disproportionate reaction of some....
Hollywood,
I'm also unsure about the way the PCSO situation is developing. The cynic in me is inclined to see it as 'policing on the cheap'. But the 'member of the public' in me likes to see the 'police' presents on the streets.
I wasn't taking about Traf Pol just in reference to speeding but their overall role - one example for you.
I was moaned at by a member of the public when 2 Traf pol were pulling people up for not wearing a seatbelt/incorrectly spaced No. plates and using a mobile while driving. This was happening outside our shop and the member of the public commented that they could do that but had not been round to the local school that had a been broken into last night - this was about 11am the following morning.
I know that Traf pol have there job and break ins is not on the list but to a member of the public it just looks bad. Management to blame?
So if, and I stress if, Traf pol in such small number are causing a 'problem' for core policing would it not be better to completely separate the two?
Very good point about most peoples only contact with the Police is via there car - more PR training needed? !
Thanks again for your time,
Steve
And most people don't actually get burgled or robbed. They are more likely to have problems with a neighbour, where others park their car, kids playing fooyball in the street, dogs fouling the footway etc & it is these things they complain to the Police about & want the Police to do something about.
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