Which is more British - Honda or TVR
Discussion
I was just reading the news on the new Civic Type R (its alright if you like that kind of thing). Anyway, it said that the CTR is to be built in Swindon alongside the normal Civic range. This got me thinking, no one ever considers a Honda to be British.
I personally would view a Japanese car being built in Britain as being more British than a British car (TVR) being built overseas.
Just wondered what other peoples opinions are?
And do people on here consider Nobles to be British? from what I've read, they are built in SA and just some minor details are finished in the UK, so does that really make them British?
Bentley and Rolls Royce might be owned by the Germans, but again, they are built in Britain, so I personally still consider them to be British, probably more British than a TVR built in Eastern Europe.
Not trying to cause an argument, but just wondered what other people felt about it.
I personally would view a Japanese car being built in Britain as being more British than a British car (TVR) being built overseas.
Just wondered what other peoples opinions are?
And do people on here consider Nobles to be British? from what I've read, they are built in SA and just some minor details are finished in the UK, so does that really make them British?
Bentley and Rolls Royce might be owned by the Germans, but again, they are built in Britain, so I personally still consider them to be British, probably more British than a TVR built in Eastern Europe.
Not trying to cause an argument, but just wondered what other people felt about it.
To me it's the spirit the car was designed with that defines its nationality not the location of build. The Toyota Corolla or Peugeot 206 have both been built in the UK, but neither of these manage to seem British to me, just foreign cars build in Britain for one reason or another.
The new CTR is slightly different, in that its a specialist variant and I'd imagine that the UK could be its largest market, so you could consider that specific variant a little British I guess.
Put another way, I beleive the old VW Beetle is now built in Mexico, but would that make you think of it as a Mexican car?
The new CTR is slightly different, in that its a specialist variant and I'd imagine that the UK could be its largest market, so you could consider that specific variant a little British I guess.
Put another way, I beleive the old VW Beetle is now built in Mexico, but would that make you think of it as a Mexican car?
The Porsche Boxster and Cayman are built by Valmet, a tractor manufacturer based in Finland, but you wouldn't consider them Finnish, would you? And by the way, Caterpillar bulldozers are built in France, and they make excavators in Belgium, but they're still viewed as an all-American company because that's where their roots lie. Similarly, I will always consider TVR's as British even if they are going to be built in Turin.
xtr2turbo said:
Have to agree can't ever feel that a Honda is British. I think it is where the company's soul lies that is most important.
Nail on head there, as long as TVRs personality and stayling evolves along the same path as it has it will stay true Brit all the way. xtr2turbo said:
Can change over time though. I think Lambo's are becoming less Italian for example.
Bugatti is another good example, they were once French, but would you say they are Italian or German now, with no particular features to make you realise its country of origin.I don't think it's a simple answer.
If Rover production had moved abroad, most people would probably still say it was British.
With TVR production moving abroad, it will never be British again in a million years. Never, ever. Period. The heart and soul of of TVRs was its workforce who hand built the cars, many of whom left their mark, literally, on the cars.
NS can drape as many Union flags as he likes on his machines (a word I choose carefully) that he builds abroad, but British? No f
ing way.
All IMHO, of course.
Julian
If Rover production had moved abroad, most people would probably still say it was British.
With TVR production moving abroad, it will never be British again in a million years. Never, ever. Period. The heart and soul of of TVRs was its workforce who hand built the cars, many of whom left their mark, literally, on the cars.
NS can drape as many Union flags as he likes on his machines (a word I choose carefully) that he builds abroad, but British? No f
ing way. All IMHO, of course.
Julian
xtr2turbo said:
Yes I think Sould means different things to different cars. For some it is the 'hand crafted in the UK' that matters. This is certainly the case for Rolls Royce. Might also be true for TVR. Time will tell.
Indeed, MG Rover was kept alive for years because their cars were made in Longbridge, even those many of the cars were decade old Honda designs with a bit of a wood/Halfords bits, despite the fact competitors cars were better designed and built. TVRs are similar in that they are not (realistically) the best cars in their sector, but (like Morgan too) have a special appeal that makes them special to us.
For me them being made in the UK was part of that, but not the over-riding factor, as that for me is the looks, the grunt, the noise and the exposure to a real driving experience. To being buying a British built car makes me prouder, but had TVR been Italian, French or German instead, I'd have still wanted it because of what it was.
Speaking to other owners about what other cars they'd like is also telling here, a lot say Lotus as they like the raw handling, I'm hearing a number say Corvette, they obviously like the grunt and noise while a lot also say Cobra, for that old school handling combined with looks, noise and grunt. Various other cars are mentioned, but many are not UK designed or built.
Living in Swindon I can say the Honda is a japanese factory, making japanese cars, run by japanese 7 Uk senior staff run to japanese standards. I don't think that makes a british car, although to get around the import quota they officially are.
A few stats. Honda employ 4900 people in Swindon and more indirectly in the surrounding area. They have been here for just over 20 years now and have made well over a million cars in the UK. They currently make 885 cars a day!
The Civic type R is only made here in the UK, but the swindon plant also makes the CR-V, I think the HR-V but also engines.
A few stats. Honda employ 4900 people in Swindon and more indirectly in the surrounding area. They have been here for just over 20 years now and have made well over a million cars in the UK. They currently make 885 cars a day!
The Civic type R is only made here in the UK, but the swindon plant also makes the CR-V, I think the HR-V but also engines.
For me personally, any car that is built with the same ethos that has been behind TVR and that is priced like a TVR would attract my interest regardless of where it was made. However, if TVR do move production abroad for a lot of people, and myself included, it will lose at least some its Britishness as everyone will always remember the company's roots and realise that they have been left behind. Would I buy another TVR if production is moved abroad ? - definately yes provided that:
1. The ethos was maintained i.e original styling, supercar performance, a glorious
soundtrack and competitvely priced AND
2. No other car manufacturer was doing it better for cheaper.
It's the last point, I believe, that will trip up future TVR sales as IMHO TVR are looking at moving more up-market in pricing terms.
1. The ethos was maintained i.e original styling, supercar performance, a glorious
soundtrack and competitvely priced AND
2. No other car manufacturer was doing it better for cheaper.
It's the last point, I believe, that will trip up future TVR sales as IMHO TVR are looking at moving more up-market in pricing terms.
I drive a CTR, but it neither Jap or British. The shocking thing is that it is so damn robust. How the stuff nearly 200bph through a 2L engine that never breaks is quite impressive. Something all car manufactures could learn from.
Just a silly thought I wonder what a 4L Type-R engine would be like on a more interesting sports car? Hmmmm food for thought.
Getting back on track, it's very hard to truly identify a British (I like to say English) car. It's what you feel about it!
Just a silly thought I wonder what a 4L Type-R engine would be like on a more interesting sports car? Hmmmm food for thought.
Getting back on track, it's very hard to truly identify a British (I like to say English) car. It's what you feel about it!
Edited by dvpeace on Wednesday 17th January 11:03
dvpeace said:
Just a silly thought I wonder what a 4L Type-R engine would be like on a more interesting sports car? Hmmmm food for thought.
Hmm, like a Cerb V8, flat-plane crank but variable valve timing and bullet-proof reliability... If each side of the V was the S2000 spec 2L lump, then you'd be talking 500bhp, or even more fun, each bank with a supercharger like on the Atom, 650+ bhp!
Consider Apple (ipods etc) - "designed in California, built in China".
Everyone considers Apple to be Californian, despite the assembly being done overseas. They are based in California though.
If TVR was to be completely assembled in Italy, then i would no longer consider the 'new TVR' British.
If they were to maintain some presence in the UK - design maybe or some assembly - then i would consider the cars still to be British.
Everyone considers Apple to be Californian, despite the assembly being done overseas. They are based in California though.
If TVR was to be completely assembled in Italy, then i would no longer consider the 'new TVR' British.
If they were to maintain some presence in the UK - design maybe or some assembly - then i would consider the cars still to be British.
RayVonn said:
Bentley and Rolls Royce .... are built in Britain, so I personally still consider them to be British, probably more British than a TVR built in Eastern Europe.
Not trying to cause an argument...
No argument because TVRs aren't built in Eastern Europe. Every TVR on the road is 100% british, hand-built in Blackpool - period. Not trying to cause an argument...
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