Discussion
Does the 944s2 16v engine have a cambelt as well as the chain or just the chain or just the cambelt? I've seen several adverts and discussions that seem to mention either one or the other or both.
Is there a workshop manual available for this car? If so where would I get one and how much would it be likely to cost.
Finally, is the clutch a job that can be done without a car lift or does either the engine or gear box have to come out of the bottom. Is there any way this can be safely done on axle stands?
Thanks,
Mark
>>> Edited by dern on Sunday 6th April 16:04
Is there a workshop manual available for this car? If so where would I get one and how much would it be likely to cost.
Finally, is the clutch a job that can be done without a car lift or does either the engine or gear box have to come out of the bottom. Is there any way this can be safely done on axle stands?
Thanks,
Mark
>>> Edited by dern on Sunday 6th April 16:04
You will find a cam belt, driving one cam and a chain linking both cams together. The chain is situated halfway down the camshafts. When this chain starts to ware it can also ware the teeth on the camshafts, at this point things can get a tad expensive.
As far as I'm aware their is no Haynes manual covering the 16V models. Maybe some one can advise what other manuals are available?
A clutch change involves disconecting the torque tube and unbolting the gearbox and moving it backward. It sounds pretty involved to me. Havent tried this and cant realy advise but you realy need accses to the whole of the underside. Might be ok if you have four axle stands?
As far as I'm aware their is no Haynes manual covering the 16V models. Maybe some one can advise what other manuals are available?
A clutch change involves disconecting the torque tube and unbolting the gearbox and moving it backward. It sounds pretty involved to me. Havent tried this and cant realy advise but you realy need accses to the whole of the underside. Might be ok if you have four axle stands?
The cam belt should be replaced every 3-4 years or about 30k miles, the cam chain and tensioner should be checked as soon as possible to make sure there is no stretching of the chain and that the plastic tensioner pads aren't worn or becoming brittle with age. The top pad is cheap to replace but the lower one is part of the tensioner assembly which costs about £150. If the cam chain needs replacing the camshafts need to be removed which is fairly expensive in terms of labour.
To have a clutch changed costs about £750 and is either an engine or transmission out job.
You should join the 944 register mailing list: www.titanic.co.uk/944
To have a clutch changed costs about £750 and is either an engine or transmission out job.
You should join the 944 register mailing list: www.titanic.co.uk/944
Thanks for the info, how often does the lower tensioner and the chain need replacing?
The top pad is cheap to replace but the lower one is part of the tensioner assembly which costs about £150. If the cam chain needs replacing the camshafts need to be removed which is fairly expensive in terms of labour.
Cheers,
Mark
Well my car had done nearly 90k miles when I got the chain checked. It had stretched by 10mm! 
so had to be replaced with the top pad on the tensioner. Luckily the sprockets on the camshafts were ok. I'm currently considering whether to get the tensioner assembly done too - I've had this rattle from the front of the car when on a trailing throttle. I was told it could be from one of the exhaust boxes, but I'm not convinced 
so had to be replaced with the top pad on the tensioner. Luckily the sprockets on the camshafts were ok. I'm currently considering whether to get the tensioner assembly done too - I've had this rattle from the front of the car when on a trailing throttle. I was told it could be from one of the exhaust boxes, but I'm not convinced Official Porsche workshop manuals are available for about £300 a set (try Gmund books). Haynes only do a manual for the 8v cars and it’s crap (US version only). A cheaper alternative is to buy a copy burned onto a CD for about £10 on ebay.
As already said, replacement of the clutch is quite a time consuming job. The factory quoted time is about 12 hours. Quite a few people on Rennlist have done the job themselves, but I would at least double the factory time as an indication if using axle stands etc.
Cheers.
As already said, replacement of the clutch is quite a time consuming job. The factory quoted time is about 12 hours. Quite a few people on Rennlist have done the job themselves, but I would at least double the factory time as an indication if using axle stands etc.
Cheers.
I did look for one having recently bought one for my blade but couldn't find one. Knowing they are out there is useful though and if anyone has one and would like to trade a copy for a contribution to their original purchase price I'd be interested
basil brush said: Official Porsche workshop manuals are available for about £300 a set (try Gmund books). Haynes only do a manual for the 8v cars and it’s crap (US version only). A cheaper alternative is to buy a copy burned onto a CD for about £10 on ebay.
That's great, I don't mind it being difficult (having just taken the engine/gearbox out of my tvr s3) but the really annoying thing is when, half way through, it turns out to be impossible
As already said, replacement of the clutch is quite a time consuming job. The factory quoted time is about 12 hours. Quite a few people on Rennlist have done the job themselves, but I would at least double the factory time as an indication if using axle stands etc.
Regards,
Mark
AJLintern said:I'm currently considering whether to get the tensioner assembly done too - I've had this rattle from the front of the car when on a trailing throttle. I was told it could be from one of the exhaust boxes, but I'm not convinced
Friend of mine replaced his cam chain tensioner a few days ago; the whole unit cost him around £180 which comes with both pads. It is quite cheap considering it is one of the most important thing to look after on the 16V engine.
However the rattling noise of the chain moving under the cam cover does not disappear, so no worries to be had.
PS : fitted a K&N air filter on saturday and noticed torque at low/mid range has significantly increased. Engine note a bit more 'metallic' above 4500 revs up to the redline
I would highly recommend it !
Edited to correct the dyslexy
>> Edited by Thom on Monday 7th April 15:22
GR4 said: There's a guy who advertises the £300 Porsche workshop manuals scanned onto CD for £50. I've seen the 968 one and it looks fine (all 800 pages of it !). I don't know him so I'm not advertising, but the phone number is 020 8759 9478
Most people on the email group at www.titanic.co.uk/944 have copies of this CD and someone will generally burn you another one for the cost of the disc plus postage (approx a fiver)
The only reason that this camchain has such a bad reputation is that Porsche have never incorporated it into any inspection schedule (and they still haven't). So approx eight years after manufacture we start hearing horror stories of chains snapping.
I replaced mine at 100,000 miles with very little wear but will inspect it every 50,000 from now on.
AJLintern said:The trouble is I don't remember hearing it before I had the chain replaced and it only happens on a trailing throttle...
I do not know from where you hear the noise but you should not hear it from the driver's seat, only when listening with your ear just above the cam cover.
edited to add : maybe this noise is not from the cam chain...?
>> Edited by Thom on Monday 7th April 18:49
Thom said:
I do not know from where you hear the noise but you should not hear it from the driver's seat, only when listening with your ear just above the cam cover.
No I can hear it very clearly from the driver's seat. Particularly when on a motorway accelarating to about 80 then easing off the throttle slightly to 75 - rattling noise from the front of the car which lasts about 3 seconds
AJLintern said:rattling noise from the front of the car which lasts about 3 seconds
Remove the cam cover and check if the chain got loose. It might be well tight when accelerating but may loosen when releasing the throttle, hence hitting the cam cover for a few seconds before getting tightened again in the other 'way', if you see what I mean.
Thanks for the info.
Another quick question... is mileage a particular issue on these cars? Given that I'll be buying on condition rather than mileage and age and that I'll be test driving a few to find one that feels tight and will be looking for evidence of recent belt/chain maintenance and a recent clutch would be a bonus are there any other mileage based gotchas that need to be taken into account such as all the dampers failing at 110k or the gearbox falling apart at 140k etc?
There seems to be plenty of choice of 944 s2 cars but many of them sit at the other side of 100k miles which people generally view as a problem but I'd like to view as an opportunity to buy a car with issues already sorted out. Is this a fair view of the situation or will I be looking at a money pit over 100k?
Thanks,
Mark
Another quick question... is mileage a particular issue on these cars? Given that I'll be buying on condition rather than mileage and age and that I'll be test driving a few to find one that feels tight and will be looking for evidence of recent belt/chain maintenance and a recent clutch would be a bonus are there any other mileage based gotchas that need to be taken into account such as all the dampers failing at 110k or the gearbox falling apart at 140k etc?
There seems to be plenty of choice of 944 s2 cars but many of them sit at the other side of 100k miles which people generally view as a problem but I'd like to view as an opportunity to buy a car with issues already sorted out. Is this a fair view of the situation or will I be looking at a money pit over 100k?
Thanks,
Mark
You may well find that the car with the higher mileage has had all the expensive bits done fairly recently, whereas a car at 80k might be on the edge of a lot of expensive work. Generally speaking these cars can go on for very high mileages if they have been maintained properly throughout their life. I've spent a fair amount on mine since I bought it, though I did get a good deal which enabled me to save some money for the inevitable bills...
Remember that they stopped making 944s in 1993 or something, so even a 'low mileage per year' example will be approaching 100k miles.
I would worry about underuse as much as anything. One with 50k miles may have been stored up for months on end, and have all sorts of oil leaks, square tyres, gunged fuel system, shot brake calipers etc. - only some of which will be immediately obvious.
Buy on condition every time... and get that inspection. It may not pay for itself with a dealer supplied 996 where not much is wrong, but on a private sale on an old 944, the inspector may point out 1k's worth of bits that need doing... which you can then negotiate off the asking price.
I would worry about underuse as much as anything. One with 50k miles may have been stored up for months on end, and have all sorts of oil leaks, square tyres, gunged fuel system, shot brake calipers etc. - only some of which will be immediately obvious.
Buy on condition every time... and get that inspection. It may not pay for itself with a dealer supplied 996 where not much is wrong, but on a private sale on an old 944, the inspector may point out 1k's worth of bits that need doing... which you can then negotiate off the asking price.
Good advice, thanks.
Just to clarify... what I'm looking for is a daily driver. I'm quite happy to do work on it but not to the same extent as I have to on my tvr s3. My daughter takes up a lot more of my time than before she came along so I find I'm having problems finding time to keep up with the maintenance on the tvr. What I find happens now is that the tvr needs something doing to it so it tends to sit around for a bit until I get a free weekend to fix it. I'm happy to spend the odd weekend replacing a clutch/bushes/wheel bearings etc what what I'm trying to get away from is spending every weekend doing this kind of stuff. I do enjoy it but no longer have time to do it. Any advice on the suitability of a 944 to fulfil this role would be gratefully received.
Thanks,
Mark
Just to clarify... what I'm looking for is a daily driver. I'm quite happy to do work on it but not to the same extent as I have to on my tvr s3. My daughter takes up a lot more of my time than before she came along so I find I'm having problems finding time to keep up with the maintenance on the tvr. What I find happens now is that the tvr needs something doing to it so it tends to sit around for a bit until I get a free weekend to fix it. I'm happy to spend the odd weekend replacing a clutch/bushes/wheel bearings etc what what I'm trying to get away from is spending every weekend doing this kind of stuff. I do enjoy it but no longer have time to do it. Any advice on the suitability of a 944 to fulfil this role would be gratefully received.
Thanks,
Mark
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