Insurance - limited milage issues
Discussion
So, I walk or ride a pushbike to work, and we have a daily driver for all the usual car needs.
I also have an imported, modified toy in the garage, which sees the light of day occasionally for some fun on the track and back roads and the like.
It's a pain to insure, as the mod list is lengthy, I'd like agreed value and it does limited milage.
So, get a policy that seems to do what I want, and limits my milage to 1500 miles a year (about all I do on the road). I discuss with the gentlemen on the phone that the car will do this milage on *this* policy. It may also do some miles on the track (insured by someone else), and is also driven by other people (again, insured seperately by them).
He assures me that this is not a problem.
I buy the policy and get the documents through. They insist on a milage declaration, and if I exceed 1500 miles, they'll invalidate the insurance.
So, I can trailer the car to the ring, do 1500 miles on a racetrack insured (no doubt at huge cost) on a seperate policy, trailer the car home. Pop out for some milk, and write the car off 300m down the road, and they will not pay out because the car has exceeded 1500 miles even though they insured not one of those miles.
The excuse was "we have no other way of doing this".
Sorry, but surely that's *your* problem.
I'm going to have to keep a logbook of all milage not done on this insurance policy I think.
Beware if you're on a limited milage policy and the car is sometimes used when not covered by that insurance.
Bizzarely, I can drive anything third party, so I assume I can borrow my mothers car and put 50K on it, and still be insured.....
I also have an imported, modified toy in the garage, which sees the light of day occasionally for some fun on the track and back roads and the like.
It's a pain to insure, as the mod list is lengthy, I'd like agreed value and it does limited milage.
So, get a policy that seems to do what I want, and limits my milage to 1500 miles a year (about all I do on the road). I discuss with the gentlemen on the phone that the car will do this milage on *this* policy. It may also do some miles on the track (insured by someone else), and is also driven by other people (again, insured seperately by them).
He assures me that this is not a problem.
I buy the policy and get the documents through. They insist on a milage declaration, and if I exceed 1500 miles, they'll invalidate the insurance.
So, I can trailer the car to the ring, do 1500 miles on a racetrack insured (no doubt at huge cost) on a seperate policy, trailer the car home. Pop out for some milk, and write the car off 300m down the road, and they will not pay out because the car has exceeded 1500 miles even though they insured not one of those miles.
The excuse was "we have no other way of doing this".
Sorry, but surely that's *your* problem.
I'm going to have to keep a logbook of all milage not done on this insurance policy I think.
Beware if you're on a limited milage policy and the car is sometimes used when not covered by that insurance.
Bizzarely, I can drive anything third party, so I assume I can borrow my mothers car and put 50K on it, and still be insured.....
I have exactly the same problem with my track car which is also used on the road…. I’m insured for 5000 miles with Adrian Flux.
But what can you do? I believe that after you exceed the agreed mileage limit you are still covered for 3rd party only so if the worst happened [i.e. you killed someone or hit another car etc…] you should still be covered.
But what can you do? I believe that after you exceed the agreed mileage limit you are still covered for 3rd party only so if the worst happened [i.e. you killed someone or hit another car etc…] you should still be covered.
John Laverick said:
I have exactly the same problem with my track car which is also used on the road…. I’m insured for 5000 miles with Adrian Flux.
But what can you do? I believe that after you exceed the agreed mileage limit you are still covered for 3rd party only so if the worst happened [i.e. you killed someone or hit another car etc…] you should still be covered.
But what can you do? I believe that after you exceed the agreed mileage limit you are still covered for 3rd party only so if the worst happened [i.e. you killed someone or hit another car etc…] you should still be covered.
Irritating isn't it.
Basically, I plan to keep a logbook in the car, and whenever any miles are put on the thing that were not on the road - or on the road driven by someone not insured on this policy, I'll make a note of it.
I'm half tempted to just tell them to double the milage and then I'll be fine - but it's the principle of the damn thing. I'm just concerned that to get what I want will involve GPS tracking, and that's just never going to happen....
I've insured mine for 10k miles pa, with the idea that I'll use the runabout more often (as a by product I'll keep my petrol costs down too). Currently I'm about 900 miles over target. I asked my insurer (RAC) about this and they said fine so long as you advise them beforehand, and they may ask for a little more cash for the policy, or they may take the view that it wasn't that vital and charge nothing. Either way it wasn't going to invalidate the policy.
The problem with for example a Caterham thats used for track days is that not all people are honest and say what miles are done on the road and on the track, so apart from some sort of tracking device or black box, theres no way the insurers can record how many miles you do on the road and on the track. So even if you haven't paid for trackday cover with your insurance, it still counts for your total annual milage.
Surely if a log is kept, they'd find it very difficult to squirm out of the claim, especially if you write to them in the first place and declare that this is what you are going to do?
I've always wondered about the worth of the limited mileage clause since when two people are using a car -- one with 3rd party cover on their own basis and no named driver facility -- how can they possibly turn down a claim even if the car has covered 100,000 miles where you said *you* only needed to be insured for 1500?
Is there any established case law?
SM
I've always wondered about the worth of the limited mileage clause since when two people are using a car -- one with 3rd party cover on their own basis and no named driver facility -- how can they possibly turn down a claim even if the car has covered 100,000 miles where you said *you* only needed to be insured for 1500?
Is there any established case law?
SM
I have a slight problem that i am in two minds about sorting. I only turned 17 in august and so insured my first car, 24k on the clock at this point, in my mothers name. On insuring the car i stated my annual mileage as 6000 a year however my car has now done 200 off of 30K and was lucky, in a way, to be shunted before this limit was exceeded. Should i tell the insurance company when/if i get my car back or should i do it now, although it may be written off, or in the bodyshop for a good few weeks.
supermono said:
Surely if a log is kept, they'd find it very difficult to squirm out of the claim, especially if you write to them in the first place and declare that this is what you are going to do?
I think you'll find that most insurance companies / brokers / whatever would take the line that:
A) We are insuring you for 1500 miles a year total.
B) We don't care where those miles are racked up, but when on the track you're not insured by us.
C) We don't car who is driving, it's still 1500 miles total.
How would you be able to prove to the insurance company's satisfacton that your mileage log was accurate? Insurance companies wrote the book on squirming out of paying out!
i insured my jem for years on a limited mileage policy (6k a year), and only a couple of times have i ever been asked for proof of the mileage. usually they ask for a photocopy of the MOT, but come renewal, they never ask for proof of what you've covered in the last year.
on one occasion i had my speedo calibrated and rebuilt, so it only showed a few miles, and before it was recalibrated it was wildly inaccurate, and you could do about 10k miles before it would have shown the 6k i was allowed to do.
i made 2 claims whilst i had the car,(both non fault), but on both occasions they never asked for proof of mileage.
on one occasion i had my speedo calibrated and rebuilt, so it only showed a few miles, and before it was recalibrated it was wildly inaccurate, and you could do about 10k miles before it would have shown the 6k i was allowed to do.
i made 2 claims whilst i had the car,(both non fault), but on both occasions they never asked for proof of mileage.
elwe said:
Disconnect the speedo when on the track and use a different one if you want to know what your speed is. The down side is that when you come to sell the car you will have to tell the buyer that the odometer reading doesn't include track miles or else you will be commiting an offence.
Surely, it's buyer beware so only have to tell them if asked..?
roosevelt said:
eccles said:
i insured my jem for years on a limited mileage policy (6k a year), and only a couple of times have i ever been asked for proof of the mileage.
They will ask for proof if you make a claim. ie current MOT..
if you read what i wrote you'll see that they don't!
i made 2 claims and wasn't asked either time.
Fat Richie said:
I think you'll find that most insurance companies / brokers / whatever would take the line that:
A) We are insuring you for 1500 miles a year total.
This is my point. They will be insuring me for that milage, total. What I choose to do with something that I own outside that insurance is utterly bugger all to do with them.
roosevelt said:
elwe said:
Disconnect the speedo when on the track and use a different one if you want to know what your speed is. The down side is that when you come to sell the car you will have to tell the buyer that the odometer reading doesn't include track miles or else you will be commiting an offence.
Surely, it's buyer beware so only have to tell them if asked..?
I think you will find that the laws relating to clocking vehicles now mean that your presenting a vehicle to a buyer with a reading on the odometer is exactly the same as if you put another sign in the car satating the mileage. Unless you put a statement near the odometer stating that the mileage is not garanteed to be correct, as most (all?) second hand car dealers now do.
Mr E said:
Fat Richie said:
I think you'll find that most insurance companies / brokers / whatever would take the line that:
A) We are insuring you for 1500 miles a year total.
This is my point. They will be insuring me for that milage, total. What I choose to do with something that I own outside that insurance is utterly bugger all to do with them.
I dont think that it is their rules and I think the broker has got it wrong, has not been bothered to check properly, or they have not considered the legal implications.
Contractually, they are insuring you driving that car for 1500 miles a year. Whether you are driving your car around a track - which no doubt they specifically choose to remove from your policy - or indeed if someone else drives the car this does not affect your contract. Thats the important point - if they chose to exclude track day coverage from the policy then this is also excluded from other parts of it too.
If someone else is driving your car then they are driving it under their own insurance policy and would claim through their insurance. This does not affect your contract whatsoever. Now, if the insurance states that it is voided as soon as your odometer reaches XXXX, then that is a different matter, and i am not sure they can even get away with doing that legally, but I doubt that is what is stated on the document.
They are right, the odometer is the only way "they" can prove the point, but in practical terms, how can they invalidate your insurance if you have proof that you have done less than the 1500 miles stated? This is a perfect time to pay the £20 extra for the 'Legal Cover'. If you read the small print it often covers you for claim situations, and at any time you can choose a solicitor to represent you agains the other party or their insurers, or more importantly against your own insurance company if you feel they have a conflict of interest against yours.
For the coverage you get, and how much it my help you out in the future its a bargain. In a case I am handling at the moment for my parter, the threat of me asking for the form to pass to our solicitors is enough to get things progressed very quickly. I have told them I am quite happy to have my solicitor charge them £100 per hour to listen to their holding music for 20 mins at a time day after day... Thay are not so keen though!
justinp1 said:
This does not affect your contract whatsoever. Now, if the insurance states that it is voided as soon as your odometer reaches XXXX, then that is a different matter, and i am not sure they can even get away with doing that legally, but I doubt that is what is stated on the document.
The policy isn't clear on the subject, but that is what I've been told verbally on the phone. It's all a bit of a mess, and I'm awaiting the final version of the policy documentation before getting too wound up....
Regarding legal insurance, yes it's ticked for exactly the reasons you describe. Seems to be sensible...
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