Identified for speeding by photo
Discussion
Listen to this one and see what you think. A friend was telling me the tripped a speed camera in England. They were driving a work vehicle at the time. The police turned up to speak to the transport manager and asked him who the driver was. He said he wasn't sure but could find out for them. The cops then produced a photo of the car (front on) the drivers face was visible. The transport manager provided the details of the driver and £60 and 3 penalty points were dished out.
Is this the right way to go about it. Ive been a cop in Scotland 15 years and have never heard of anything like this before.
Is this the right way to go about it. Ive been a cop in Scotland 15 years and have never heard of anything like this before.
Isn't that what Med Hughes talked about and I think GMP have set up? In other words a dedicated unit which pursues unnamed drivers.
As in S172 sent out, they get no response or are being led around the houses, so this outfit goes into gear.
Many people who declare they can't remember who was driving, or where they were, or dispute the evidence, can't / won't front up in a face to face interview. Either that or the tale starts unravelling in the way only porkies have a habit of doing when quizzed in real time.
Note:- I'm not saying this is s useful way to tie up resources ie personally chasing a scamera offence, because frankly I think it isn't, but just an observation.
As in S172 sent out, they get no response or are being led around the houses, so this outfit goes into gear.
Many people who declare they can't remember who was driving, or where they were, or dispute the evidence, can't / won't front up in a face to face interview. Either that or the tale starts unravelling in the way only porkies have a habit of doing when quizzed in real time.
Note:- I'm not saying this is s useful way to tie up resources ie personally chasing a scamera offence, because frankly I think it isn't, but just an observation.
Peter Ward said:
I thought that camera photos were legal only to identify the vehicle and could not be used to identify the driver? If a photo is provided to a driver to help jog his memory that's one thing, but surely in court the photo could not be counted as evidence?
Thats what I thought.
North Wales Police's Arrive Alive had this in place a long time ago. 2 fully kitted out officers would turn up in a AA van and knoock on at least 3 neighbour's houses telling them who they were, what they were enquiring about etc and what the neighbours could tell them about a certain person. Then finally they'd come to one's own house and browbeat the wife.
Next day the neighbours are round asking what sort of crime one might have committed.
Intimidation ....spose so.
They have no warrant and you tell them to get off your property. If they come to work you ask them to leave - preferably asking why they were no quite so mob-handed and diligent the last time you reported a break-in.
Next day the neighbours are round asking what sort of crime one might have committed.
Intimidation ....spose so.
They have no warrant and you tell them to get off your property. If they come to work you ask them to leave - preferably asking why they were no quite so mob-handed and diligent the last time you reported a break-in.
Richard C said:
North Wales Police's Arrive Alive had this in place a long time ago. 2 fully kitted out officers would turn up in a AA van and knoock on at least 3 neighbour's houses telling them who they were, what they were enquiring about etc and what the neighbours could tell them about a certain person. Then finally they'd come to one's own house and browbeat the wife.
Next day the neighbours are round asking what sort of crime one might have committed.
Intimidation ....spose so.
They have no warrant and you tell them to get off your property. If they come to work you ask them to leave - preferably asking why they were no quite so mob-handed and diligent the last time you reported a break-in.
Next day the neighbours are round asking what sort of crime one might have committed.
Intimidation ....spose so.
They have no warrant and you tell them to get off your property. If they come to work you ask them to leave - preferably asking why they were no quite so mob-handed and diligent the last time you reported a break-in.
Sounds like they are investigating a crime & speaking to potential witnesses
vonhosen said:
Richard C said:
North Wales Police's Arrive Alive had this in place a long time ago. 2 fully kitted out officers would turn up in a AA van and knoock on at least 3 neighbour's houses telling them who they were, what they were enquiring about etc and what the neighbours could tell them about a certain person. Then finally they'd come to one's own house and browbeat the wife.
Next day the neighbours are round asking what sort of crime one might have committed.
Intimidation ....spose so.
They have no warrant and you tell them to get off your property. If they come to work you ask them to leave - preferably asking why they were no quite so mob-handed and diligent the last time you reported a break-in.
Next day the neighbours are round asking what sort of crime one might have committed.
Intimidation ....spose so.
They have no warrant and you tell them to get off your property. If they come to work you ask them to leave - preferably asking why they were no quite so mob-handed and diligent the last time you reported a break-in.
Sounds like they are investigating a crime & speaking to potential witnesses
So why turn up in an Arrive Alive van und not a proper plod car
gently bentley said:
Well its 172 clear cut but they just showed the photo and said "whi is that" Ive never heard of that before
Well, clearly in Scotland you don't need the tax collected with such vigour.
Actions like this and people wonder why no-one has any respect for plod anymore.
Edited by jasandjules on Wednesday 24th January 10:40
Interesting that both police officers response to a perfectly legal request for Police without a warrant to leave the premises is to threaten with further charges and 'other' crimes.
Why not explain why policy now is to prosecute in all circumstances people for speeding, but not to routinely send an officer to the scene of a break in / mugging ?
I think the public percieve that the police are only prosecuting the easy targets and anything that looks a bit hard (eg burglarly) is left.
jasandjules said:
gently bentley said:
Well its 172 clear cut but they just showed the photo and said "whi is that" Ive never heard of that before
Well, clearly in Scotland you don't need the tax collected with such vigour.
Actions like this and people wonder why no-one has any respect for plod anymore.
I’m sure such a sweeping statement is not justified. Sounds like the view of someone who thinks speeding fines should not be paid. It’s possible the police or SCP have had a number of NIPs returned claiming the driver is unknown, possibly even from this particular company. The police with this action have pre-empted the return of the form with a little pressure to identify. I think it was good policing.
I make no judgement about the particular speeding circumstances since we don’t have details.
herewego said:
I’m sure such a sweeping statement is not justified. Sounds like the view of someone who thinks speeding fines should not be paid.
You think it is not justified? I can go on to list the number of crimes of which I have both personal knowledge and experience of, which Police Officers failed to attend if you wish. Can you show me a thread where I state speeding fines ought not to be paid?
It is in fact the view of one who believes that tax collection by bully boy tactics (and the waste of 2 officers) is not acceptable.
One who believes that, last time I checked, we still had SOME Civil Liberties left.
One who believes that the police really ought to attend thefts/vandalisms and many other crimes which I, as a member of the public, feel I ought to be safe from.
One who feels that the police force are here to serve and protect, not extort.
One who believes that I defer my rights to defend myself and take retribution upon those who wrong me only on the basis that the police and criminal justice system will do so.
jasandjules said:
herewego said:
I’m sure such a sweeping statement is not justified. Sounds like the view of someone who thinks speeding fines should not be paid.
You think it is not justified? I can go on to list the number of crimes of which I have both personal knowledge and experience of, which Police Officers failed to attend if you wish. Can you show me a thread where I state speeding fines ought not to be paid?
It is in fact the view of one who believes that tax collection by bully boy tactics (and the waste of 2 officers) is not acceptable.
One who believes that, last time I checked, we still had SOME Civil Liberties left.
One who believes that the police really ought to attend thefts/vandalisms and many other crimes which I, as a member of the public, feel I ought to be safe from.
One who feels that the police force are here to serve and protect, not extort.
One who believes that I defer my rights to defend myself and take retribution upon those who wrong me only on the basis that the police and criminal justice system will do so.
You wrote: "Well, clearly in Scotland you don't need the tax collected with such vigour".
This tells me that you think fines are taxes and shouldn't be collected(paid).
Asking an office manager which of his employees is shown in a photgraph is not bully boy tactics surely.
I have been burgled twice and the police have attended. Scene of crime have attempted to find fingerprints. Officers have returned with recovered goods to ask if they were ours. I have no complaints.
herewego said:
You wrote: "Well, clearly in Scotland you don't need the tax collected with such vigour".
I have no complaints.
I have no complaints.
With Such Vigour. An imperative point. The simple fact is, what is wrong with the standard NIP photo etc? Why waste police officers time with this? There is no justification IMHO for that.
And believe me, you are the lucky one then in terms of no complaints. You clearly don't live in either Essex or Suffolk. For example, my father had no less than 7 cars stolen. The police did call once though, to tell him his car was blocking the road and they would tow it at his cost if he didn't collect (about a week after he told them it was nicked). My mum had her car broken into about 3 times. She got lovely Insurance numbers, but no police. My sister had her car stolen, can you guess what happened? I had my garage broken into, can you guess how many police turned up within a week? (oh yes, did I mention they were told I had footprints in the dust on the floor). I had my car bricked, can you guess what happened? My next door neighbours house was broken into, how many officers were in attendance that day? I haven't bothered to include my friends experiences in, but I think it is possible you can guess how they went.
gargamel said:
Interesting that both police officers response to a perfectly legal request for Police without a warrant to leave the premises is to threaten with further charges and 'other' crimes.
Why not explain why policy now is to prosecute in all circumstances people for speeding, but not to routinely send an officer to the scene of a break in / mugging ?
I think the public percieve that the police are only prosecuting the easy targets and anything that looks a bit hard (eg burglarly) is left.
In Scotland the police don't prosecute anybody. That is done by the Procurator Fiscal. The police get no say in the decision. The policies are agreed by the Joint police board who appoint a Chief Constable. The joint police board are polititians elected by the public. You are the public.
Don't like what the police are doing? Vote out your polititian or stand as an independant.
I'm slightly on the wind up but you can see a point emerging.
jasandjules said:
herewego said:
You wrote: "Well, clearly in Scotland you don't need the tax collected with such vigour".
I have no complaints.
I have no complaints.
With Such Vigour. An imperative point. The simple fact is, what is wrong with the standard NIP photo etc? Why waste police officers time with this? There is no justification IMHO for that.
If the company claimed not to know the driver, a lot of police time could be spent later trying to follow it up. It's unlikely these officers had been taken from something more important just to do this. They're not attending emergencies all the time.
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