Toe heel & left foot Braking
Discussion
Here for all you Porsche Driving Track Aces 
All right I know it's not a Porsche but the old Geezers got something to do with Porsches nowdays 
antways have a look at this if you haven't already seen it and if you have it's gotta be worth another look you might just be able to pick up some of the old geezers left foot braking and toe heel technique 
[url]http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?d[/url]
All right I know it's not a Porsche but the old Geezers got something to do with Porsches nowdays antways have a look at this if you haven't already seen it and if you have it's gotta be worth another look you might just be able to pick up some of the old geezers left foot braking and toe heel technique [url]http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?d[/url]I may well be repeating myself here but I used to own a sportomatic 4 speed 911 many years ago (it was a 2.2 probably mid 1970's) and I often had to drive from Caernarvon to London and back - and just because I had 2 pedals and 2 feet - I taught myself how to brake with my left foot (so I just had one pedal opposite each foot). It took a while but eventually I found it just as sensitive as the right foot.
Now the car had an LSD and I found that as long as I kept my throttle pedal fixed - if I was going round a corner too fast (to keep the balance of the car exactly the same) - all I had to do was feed in a little left foot brake to always safely bring the car back on line - even on snow.
It was so safe that I could throw the car into almost any corner wirh abandon (even in the wet) and still the technique corrected any problems - so in the end it was by far the safest car I had ever driven - in sharp contrast to the reputation it had at the time.
I regularly travelled to North Wales on the A5 and nothing else ever got near my car!
Since then I prefer automatics purely for this reason - but not automatic Porsches because the 911 Sportomatic dropped to 3 speeds (and the 924, and 944 and the 964 and 993 to 4 speeds) and it was not until the Boxster and 996 that we got back to enough automatic gears to make the car perforem well enough again in that mode - in my opinion. If only I had the brains over 30 years ago to realise that the priciple could have been used to develop safer cars - as we have today with PSM etc!
Baz Hartech
Now the car had an LSD and I found that as long as I kept my throttle pedal fixed - if I was going round a corner too fast (to keep the balance of the car exactly the same) - all I had to do was feed in a little left foot brake to always safely bring the car back on line - even on snow.
It was so safe that I could throw the car into almost any corner wirh abandon (even in the wet) and still the technique corrected any problems - so in the end it was by far the safest car I had ever driven - in sharp contrast to the reputation it had at the time.
I regularly travelled to North Wales on the A5 and nothing else ever got near my car!
Since then I prefer automatics purely for this reason - but not automatic Porsches because the 911 Sportomatic dropped to 3 speeds (and the 924, and 944 and the 964 and 993 to 4 speeds) and it was not until the Boxster and 996 that we got back to enough automatic gears to make the car perforem well enough again in that mode - in my opinion. If only I had the brains over 30 years ago to realise that the priciple could have been used to develop safer cars - as we have today with PSM etc!
Baz Hartech
But I doubt they were trying to drive an auto with left foot braking - a manual is more difficult - there is another pedal in the way and no torque converter to adjust torque to the wheels if the gearing is a little wrong. The sportomatic was a manual gearbox with a gear lever switch that operated the clutch and it had a torque converter - so you could change gear while braking into a corner as well - if you wanted to and power out full throttle just lifting the throttle a bit if the back started going and feeding in a little brake - worked fantastically well - in fact it made the car feel as if it was on rails.
I understand Michael Schumaker uses the technique - and tried your trick on Davis Coulthard a few seasons ago - and it worked - great idea! (I think Kimi may use it as well).
Baz Hartech
I understand Michael Schumaker uses the technique - and tried your trick on Davis Coulthard a few seasons ago - and it worked - great idea! (I think Kimi may use it as well).
Baz Hartech
After many attempts and smacking my nose on the steering wheel too many times to remember i have given up on learning the art of left foot breaking for the moment, but no doubt, like sprouts, will find myself trying again in a few months to see if i can get it.
Heal and toe should be part of every learner driver's ecucation.
Heal and toe should be part of every learner driver's ecucation.
The first time you try it you do end up nose on steering wheel but you know it doesn't take long to get the right feel. Although you could argue that toe and heel is the same - the most important influence on the handling was not the braking but the completely steady throttle opening while braking and that would be very difficult using the same foot.
If I can master it - anyone can believe me - but having an auto helps beacause you learn by braking everywhere just to stop or slow doen the car and this gives you the time to master it when it is not so vital.
Baz Hartech
If I can master it - anyone can believe me - but having an auto helps beacause you learn by braking everywhere just to stop or slow doen the car and this gives you the time to master it when it is not so vital.
Baz Hartech
rude-boy said:
After many attempts and smacking my nose on the steering wheel too many times to remember i have given up on learning the art of left foot breaking for the moment, but no doubt, like sprouts, will find myself trying again in a few months to see if i can get it.
The trick is to sqeeeeeeze the brake pedal, not push it. Also try it when the car isn't moving but with the engine running. Or rent/borrow/steal an auto as Baz suggests.
I was taught by the great Pentti Arikkala in a twin contolled Lancia Thema. What a hoot that day was
SS7
shoestring7 said:
The trick is to sqeeeeeeze the brake pedal, not push it. Also try it when the car isn't moving but with the engine running. Or rent/borrow/steal an auto as Baz suggests.
I was taught by the great Pentti Arikkala in a twin contolled Lancia Thema. What a hoot that day was
SS7
To be fair I did get part of the way there when I was trying it in the Audi (which was an auto) and have tried a few times in the Boxster. The problem is I can do it no worries when driving in traffic/granny speeds but when things start getting serious (and it would be of help other than to rest the old pins on a long srive
)I always seem to aply too much pressure. IIRC Penti and Vatanan (sp) both run ice/snow driving schools, their not cheap but then you wouldn't expect it to be. A chap I know spent a number of days in Sweeden a fair few years ago as a guest of SAAB messing about on ice with Erik Carrlsson (sp).
zcacogp said:
shoestring7 said:
I was taught by the great Pentti Arikkala
You jammy, jammy, jammy sod! How did you get that? Oli.
So was I.
He used to live next to my old MD in Bray. Not the cheapest way to learn, but the best. He was teaching a lot of the current F1 drivers too (would not tell me who)
He taught the the Finnish Flick for free too!!
Edited by lonman on Thursday 25th January 15:43
rude-boy said:
The problem is I can do it no worries when driving in traffic/granny speeds but when things start getting serious
I spun a Cavalier SRI on the A4141 between Warwick and Knowle many years ago.
What I thought was a fast (75-80mph) left hand sweeper was in fact a nasty tightening job.
As I barrelled into it (left foot braking) at the thick end of 80mph I realised just how much it did indeed tighten
In these circumstances DO NOT LIFT OFF THE THROTTLE !!!
No prizes for guessing what I did then.............
Cue lift off oversteer of mammouth proportions, and a soundtrack which sounded like Starsky and Hutch arriving to meet Huggy Bear at the local strip joint
Realising I'd mistaken ambition for ability
I buried my foot on the brake pedal and locked all four wheels solid. The ensuing broadside slide down the road brought the car to halt rather rapidly and without hitting anything
When the tyre smoke had cleared, the silence (I'd stalled it) and sense of relief was overpowering.
I drove off somewhat chastened and have learnt IF you must left foot brake, always keep at least a balanced throttle......
lonman said:
zcacogp said:
shoestring7 said:
I was taught by the great Pentti Arikkala
You jammy, jammy, jammy sod! How did you get that? Oli.
So was I.
He used to live next to my old MD in Bray. Not the cheapest way to learn, but the best. He was teaching a lot of the current F1 drivers too (would not tell me who)
He taught the the Finnish Flick for free too!!
Edited by lonman on Thursday 25th January 15:43
Edited by Pugsey on Thursday 25th January 17:17
DanH said:
What is the tapping of the accelerator for? I know Senna used to do this too, and it was put down to coming from karting. Walter seems to be doing it too - is it to keep the car on boost?
Nice little vid. It never ceases to amaze me how the rally drivers can drive at nine tenths when there are death wish candidates standing on the outsides of the curves, or running out for a quick photo of a rally car barreling towards them.
As someone else commented above, it seems remarkable that so few spectators have died over the years - apart from a big one (Portugal springs to mind?) I don't recall too many incidents.
As someone else commented above, it seems remarkable that so few spectators have died over the years - apart from a big one (Portugal springs to mind?) I don't recall too many incidents.
Pugsey said:
DanH said:
What is the tapping of the accelerator for? I know Senna used to do this too, and it was put down to coming from karting. Walter seems to be doing it too - is it to keep the car on boost?
You give me too much credit
I've been learning the race circuits in the Club Championship over the last 2 seasons I've been an avid reader of The Circuit Guide and have started to try left foot braking in some of the places they suggest (my car isn't necessarily going fast enough to need slowing down in all the places they mention). I have to say I do it with caution but it really seems to work well.
A good example is "Barn" at Cadwell Park - after a short spurt you need to lose a little speed for this corner (which is a downhill right) before a blast along the longest straight (a continuation of the downhill for the first half), i.e. getting the power down that bit sooner can have quite an effect on the lap time. A gentle left foot application with a balanced throttle keeps the car stable and means the power (something to do with the "polar moment of interia"?) is already fed in and hence you are accelerating again without delay.
I got class wins both races (including a fastest lap) so it worked for me.
On a related note, my mechanic once suggested fitting an ignition cut-out switch on the gearlever - the idea being to make up-changes without lifting off the gas, but cutting the spark instead. Sounds like it would be very hard to get used to, but it certainly sounds like there'd be an advantage in not waiting for everything to get moving along again.
A good example is "Barn" at Cadwell Park - after a short spurt you need to lose a little speed for this corner (which is a downhill right) before a blast along the longest straight (a continuation of the downhill for the first half), i.e. getting the power down that bit sooner can have quite an effect on the lap time. A gentle left foot application with a balanced throttle keeps the car stable and means the power (something to do with the "polar moment of interia"?) is already fed in and hence you are accelerating again without delay.
I got class wins both races (including a fastest lap) so it worked for me.
On a related note, my mechanic once suggested fitting an ignition cut-out switch on the gearlever - the idea being to make up-changes without lifting off the gas, but cutting the spark instead. Sounds like it would be very hard to get used to, but it certainly sounds like there'd be an advantage in not waiting for everything to get moving along again.
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