Caterham cornering g and lap times

[subirg]

Anyone have any lap time data for Caterhams at any racetracks? The sort of thing I am after is:-

- Track
- Car spec (inc tyres if known)
- Time
- Track conditions

Also, if anyone has any cornering g force data that would be good!

Thanks all!

[jackal]

yes, have logging from all my 2006 days incl. lateral g readings
what are you trying to find out ?

[subirg]

Ah excellent - I'm just building up my database of sample lap times of different sorts of cars at various circuits around the patch. For example, my Westy XTR2 gets round Silverstone National circuit (on ACB10s) in 1min 08secs (pulling 1.3g cornering), and has done Spa in 2mins 49secs. Just want to be able to get some benchmarks and get a feel for the different paces of different cars. Any sample data is much appreciated!

Edited by subirg on Thursday 25th January 16:26

[casbar]

Doesn't driver ability sort of come into the equation

[subirg]

yes - driver ability and a whole host of other variables too (e.g. fuel load, tyres, ambient temperature, suspension set up etc etc), but I still want to collect some sample data if I can!

[fergus]

Pembrey

Caterham Superlight R on ACB10s (A30/31 compound). Dry track. road based suspension (too much roll oversteer in the corners, and struggled to get grip coming onto the back straight). 1.06.5 (on MST transponder). 1st time there to be fair though

I have a latidudinal (sp?) g meter built into my dash, but have never bothered downloading it. I just tend to use the feel of whether my ar5e is going sideways. I've seen about 1.05g at the ring though - not on CR500s (which I consider to be bad in both the wet and the dry)

Edited by fergus on Thursday 25th January 16:53

[subirg]

Pembrey - nice little track, coming onto that back straight can be a right pain with lots of sideways action...! Re ACB10s - do you have to adjust the suspension to run these vs CR500s?

Re NRing - best driving adventure you can have IMHO - even with the commedy motorbikes and tour buses going round! Can't wait to head down there with my R400 (when I eventually get it...!).

[fergus]

subirg said:

Pembrey - nice little track, coming onto that back straight can be a right pain with lots of sideways action...! Re ACB10s - do you have to adjust the suspension to run these vs CR500s?

Re NRing - best driving adventure you can have IMHO - even with the commedy motorbikes and tour buses going round! Can't wait to head down there with my R400 (when I eventually get it...!).

My suspension is set up to run on the cross ply ACB10s (via upright de-dion 'ears' (i.e. camber adjustment plates)). However, the few times I've used the CR500s (when it's p1ssing down), they seen to have been fine with 0 degress rear camber.

I can get round in about 8.15 with a passenger (BTG) and have done almost 800 laps (albeit only 70 odd on a bike), but the place is still amazing - will be interesting to see what difference some of the tarmac work they've done (or attempted to do) over the autumn/winter will make. However, all my trips this year are planned around non UK bank holidays, due to the increasing number of tw@ts turning up, stuffing it in some way shape or form and closing it for the bulk of the weekend. Accom is also easier to arrange.

The UK bank holiday dates are becoming a total joke over there. The amount of cars that just drive over there and sit in the car park (whilst people who've just come off the circuit and are looking for a space) amazes me!! Also the standard of driving from some of the brits warrants a formal caution, especially given the closing speeds of those who've driven a few laps or are in a fast car


PS you want quite compliant suspension for the Ring in a 7. There are too many undulations to get away with either stiff srpigns or really hard compression/rebound - as I can testify from taking a 964RS round there a few times. For a UK track, the std suspension is not really optimised for the job IMHO. Get some adjustable nitrons (not the non adjustable ones) rather than monkey around with what caterham have to offer. I would also get a dry sump from the offset, rather than more carbon XYZ. At the end of the day, do you want to drive the car or polish it. A cage will also considerably increase totional rigidity of the car, which is not great w/o one. The ican be seen on 'caged's FEA software to those who want to find out the easy way!!

Edited by fergus on Thursday 25th January 17:11

[Pugsey]

subirg said:

Pembrey - nice little track, coming onto that back straight can be a right pain with lots of sideways action...! Re ACB10s - do you have to adjust the suspension to run these vs CR500s?

Re NRing - best driving adventure you can have IMHO - even with the commedy motorbikes and tour buses going round! Can't wait to head down there with my R400 (when I eventually get it...!).

Did you order yet. If so did they quote deliv. date? Apologies for off topic. Also looking out some laptimes (Caterham and Radical)

[subirg]

Fergus - 8.15 at the Ring is a very decent pace (assume brige to gantry?)! Will be tough to beat. My hire car record is 9'32" (Audi A3 2.0Diesel)... At least it's better than the magical 10 min barrier! Good points re avoiding the UK bank holidays there too - the place is turning into the Benidorm of the motoring world with all sorts of MaxPowered Brits turning up and writing off their cars...

Do you use your car on road with ACB10s? If so, how do you find it? I am debating whether to stay with the basic CR500 set up from Caterham, or go to ACB10s straight off... My car will do a combination of road (weekend blasts) and track mileage.

I have decided not to go with the basic Caterham fixed damper set up, and am deciding whether to go with the Caterham Adjstable dampers, or some other aftermarket dampers (e.g. nitrons). What do you think? Re Dry Sump - I'll go for that in anticipation of pulling loads of g (probablyh sideways) when I get to some decent tracks!

Pugsey - re delivery date - Caterham quoted me June/July when I spoke to them yesterday, with R400 demonstrators out in the next 4 - 6 weeks.

Anybody got more lap times/ g readings to share??!

[jackal]

there are so many different variables... driver ability varys so much and trackday laps are always a fair bit slower simply because of the feel of the day and the more relaxed attitude that you (should be) drive with. i cant see what the point is.

best thing is to look at msttiming and look under the various caterham championships noting carefully what tyres they are on. That will give you good benchmarks if you are intending to race.

most ive seen on my g meter was 1.6 at OH where theres very severe camber
also, at La Source
soon after that reading was seen at Donnington, my outside rear split rim broke in two

Edited by jackal on Thursday 25th January 18:12

[subirg]

jackal - thanks for that, had a look at msttiming and it's got loads of good stuff on it.

[AndrewD]

1.6 sustained lateral G at La Source in a caterham????

[damianw]

Andrew - get on IM a minute, I need to talk about jackie.

[AndrewD]

LOL

Just like old days ...

[fergus]

subirg said:

Fergus - 8.15 at the Ring is a very decent pace (assume brige to gantry?)!

yes. I may be racing in the VLN 24h later this year (not in the caterham though) so I can give you a full (NS) lap time then!

subirg said:

Do you use your car on road with ACB10s? If so, how do you find it? I am debating whether to stay with the basic CR500 set up from Caterham, or go to ACB10s straight off... My car will do a combination of road (weekend blasts) and track mileage.

I don't drive it on the road, as it's only go 50mm of clearance under the sump! I've also got a load of points on my license from my 911 RS!!

subirg said:

I have decided not to go with the basic Caterham fixed damper set up, and am deciding whether to go with the Caterham Adjstable dampers, or some other aftermarket dampers (e.g. nitrons). What do you think? Re Dry Sump - I'll go for that in anticipation of pulling loads of g (probablyh sideways) when I get to some decent tracks!

Pugsey - re delivery date - Caterham quoted me June/July when I spoke to them yesterday, with R400 demonstrators out in the next 4 - 6 weeks.

Anybody got more lap times/ g readings to share??!

Get a dry sump asap, as it gives you the security of knowing you have oil pressure at all times (pending any pump failure, etc! Lol!

[rubystone]

Subir, I really wouldn't recommend using ACB10s on the road. I have,and they're just not an good on anything other than dry, uncambered, smooth surfaces. On track they are great - warm up quickly, are progressive and give really good grip. I'd buy 2 sets of wheels and have CR500s for the road and if you don't go for slicks, buy ACB10s for the track.

[subirg]

Good idea re two sets of wheels. One question though - doesn't the geometry (specifically camber) need to change from CR500s to ACB10s? What's the best compromise here as I don't fancy changing de dion ears to make the different tyres work!?

[Pugsey]

rubystone said:

Subir, I really wouldn't recommend using ACB10s on the road. I have,and they're just not an good on anything other than dry, uncambered, smooth surfaces. On track they are great - warm up quickly, are progressive and give really good grip. I'd buy 2 sets of wheels and have CR500s for the road and if you don't go for slicks, buy ACB10s for the track.

Completely agree.Took my - road reg'd - race car on ACB10s on road and it was vile - CR500s much better IMO. If you're not trailering to trackdays the ACB10s will get you there Ok though.

Edited by Pugsey on Friday 26th January 10:28

[bse]

Grads Records www.graduates.org.uk/circuits/laprecords.html
750MC Records http://750mc.co.uk/racing/laprecords/

Mega Grads 150bhp Yoko 48Rs
Super Grads 120bhp Yoko 48Rs
Classic Grads 100bhp Yoko 539s

750MC Class A - R400s (Yoko 48R/32R)
750MC Class B - Roadsport A (140bhp, 6spd, Yoko 32r)

Above are some times and general specs, obviously in race situations with slipstreaming (especially grad records I'd imagine). Can't find offical Caterham series records in one place...I know R400s on slicks at Castle Combe were doing 1m09s !!

Edited by bse on Friday 26th January 10:50