Vista - any good?
Discussion
Been running Vista RC2 for a while now and it's great.
The improved memory management means that programmes run as fast, if not faster than XP. Hardware support is generally very good - windows update now has a much larger number of drivers and anything that still doesn't work can usually be fixed by installing XP drivers (except video cards). Software support is not bad - most software developed in the last couple of years seems to be fine, much better than when I was migrating from Windows 98/Me to XP. Really like the new Aero interface, instant searches and many other small things.
There's no need to do all this "waiting for SP1" before getting it - and it's because of so many people adapting that policy that Microsoft has decided to rush out SP1 much earlier than intended (link).
The improved memory management means that programmes run as fast, if not faster than XP. Hardware support is generally very good - windows update now has a much larger number of drivers and anything that still doesn't work can usually be fixed by installing XP drivers (except video cards). Software support is not bad - most software developed in the last couple of years seems to be fine, much better than when I was migrating from Windows 98/Me to XP. Really like the new Aero interface, instant searches and many other small things.
There's no need to do all this "waiting for SP1" before getting it - and it's because of so many people adapting that policy that Microsoft has decided to rush out SP1 much earlier than intended (link).
Is it any good? Don't know. It should be quite good, it's XP's kernel tweaked, fiddled with and given a swift kick in the right direction (improved memory handler, improved disk useage, tweaks to NTFS, the usual stuff). All the complex stuff that could go horribly wrong (WinFS) has been removed... bonus.
Now. Here is the question: What does Vista bring to the table that makes it a must have purchase? For everyone, it's a different thing and a different reason. However, for me... I have no reason to upgrade until such time as I buy a new PC. Aero (the eye candy) is being back ported to XP. DirextX10 will only really be a must have in a year or so's time (assuming Microsoft don't cave and again back port it), DX9L (Vista's DirectX 9 layer) seems a little hit & miss, I've heard of it being dramatically faster than 9.0c and I've also heard of it being dramatically slower... both in RC2... which is odd.
But as I say, look over it's features and decide for yourself if it's something you'd want.
ETA: Considering KDE4 looks nice, Cegeda seems to play all the games (bar NWN2) I play and never kernels are fixing hibernate / suspend issues.... I think Q4 2007, I'll be junking Windows.
Now. Here is the question: What does Vista bring to the table that makes it a must have purchase? For everyone, it's a different thing and a different reason. However, for me... I have no reason to upgrade until such time as I buy a new PC. Aero (the eye candy) is being back ported to XP. DirextX10 will only really be a must have in a year or so's time (assuming Microsoft don't cave and again back port it), DX9L (Vista's DirectX 9 layer) seems a little hit & miss, I've heard of it being dramatically faster than 9.0c and I've also heard of it being dramatically slower... both in RC2... which is odd.
But as I say, look over it's features and decide for yourself if it's something you'd want.
ETA: Considering KDE4 looks nice, Cegeda seems to play all the games (bar NWN2) I play and never kernels are fixing hibernate / suspend issues.... I think Q4 2007, I'll be junking Windows.
Edited by ThePassenger on Thursday 25th January 19:11
m8 has it on his system, well he had it until he gave up in frustration and wiped it ?
Anyone like DRM > ie the odd movie in say avi format or any mp3 that u have ripped from your cd's, they are not microsoft approved and so wont play, then u get an offer to delete the offending file and that's about it
when it does crash, comes up with this nice plasma effect screen - just what u want when trying to rescue the system, have unticked all my xp pro pretty effects and gone for performance, even if free, doubt i would go for it.
want to be able to play my music when i want and in winamp...
Anyone like DRM > ie the odd movie in say avi format or any mp3 that u have ripped from your cd's, they are not microsoft approved and so wont play, then u get an offer to delete the offending file and that's about it
when it does crash, comes up with this nice plasma effect screen - just what u want when trying to rescue the system, have unticked all my xp pro pretty effects and gone for performance, even if free, doubt i would go for it.
want to be able to play my music when i want and in winamp...
Scraggles said:
Anyone like DRM > ie the odd movie in say avi format or any mp3 that u have ripped from your cd's, they are not microsoft approved and so wont play, then u get an offer to delete the offending file and that's about it
I can't believe this! Does this mean you can't play your own music in Vista when it's not DRM'd?
countryboy said:
There's no need to do all this "waiting for SP1" before getting it - and it's because of so many people adapting that policy that Microsoft has decided to rush out SP1 much earlier than intended (link).
Don't take this the wrong way, but business users aren't about to drop £xx / £xxx per machine to get Vista, they'll receive it as part of their normal upgrade cycle from their preferred vendors. Saves agro and gives time for them to watch how the early adopters get on with it.
Home users might be tempted, but very few will go and buy Vista, again, they'll order a complete new machine sometime in the future...
Now, if Microsoft are rushing SP1 out so close to the launch of Vista... then something smells. Microsoft are very much like IBM, they'll do their own sweet thing in their own sweet time... rushing something like Vista-SP1 suggests that by rushing Vista (it was rushed to a degree and had features cut like a madder stabber at a stabbing festival) then some elements of it might not quite work the way they are supposed to (which could be anything from MCE not talking to an Xbox, but will to a 360 through to something totally catastrophic... won't join NT4 style Domains or won't speak to 2k hosted SMB shares in certain scenarios).
To be perfectly blunt it smacks of "release day patch" which has become common in the PC games market and utterly infuriates. Of course, XP-SP1 (and SP2) disabled all the common VLK's that were being used by pirates, as Vista's 'VLK2' has been kind of worked around, I suspect SP1 appearing so suddenly is to disable the keys used.
Edited by ThePassenger on Thursday 25th January 19:29
A lot of things are quite different, a lot of things are the same. You need quite a modern graphics card to have a change of getting drivers for it, and more RAM than XP. Vista on 512 seems like XP on 256, i.e. it works but keep the system clean and don't try and do too much at once. Harder to pirate (so far...) Overall - SSDD
All my usual mp3 tools, EAC, AccurateRip, iTunes, etc all working fine under Vista.
The MCE functionality is a bonus to the 360 as well
Microsoft have definitely learnt their lessons from the initial poor XP release, and have obviously delayed Vista to make sure they get the first release as solid as possible.
The MCE functionality is a bonus to the 360 as well
Microsoft have definitely learnt their lessons from the initial poor XP release, and have obviously delayed Vista to make sure they get the first release as solid as possible.
Edited by stuh on Friday 26th January 04:32
ThePassenger said:
countryboy said:
There's no need to do all this "waiting for SP1" before getting it - and it's because of so many people adapting that policy that Microsoft has decided to rush out SP1 much earlier than intended (link).
Don't take this the wrong way, but business users aren't about to drop £xx / £xxx per machine to get Vista, they'll receive it as part of their normal upgrade cycle from their preferred vendors. Saves agro and gives time for them to watch how the early adopters get on with it.
Home users might be tempted, but very few will go and buy Vista, again, they'll order a complete new machine sometime in the future...
Now, if Microsoft are rushing SP1 out so close to the launch of Vista... then something smells. Microsoft are very much like IBM, they'll do their own sweet thing in their own sweet time... rushing something like Vista-SP1 suggests that by rushing Vista (it was rushed to a degree and had features cut like a madder stabber at a stabbing festival) then some elements of it might not quite work the way they are supposed to (which could be anything from MCE not talking to an Xbox, but will to a 360 through to something totally catastrophic... won't join NT4 style Domains or won't speak to 2k hosted SMB shares in certain scenarios).
To be perfectly blunt it smacks of "release day patch" which has become common in the PC games market and utterly infuriates. Of course, XP-SP1 (and SP2) disabled all the common VLK's that were being used by pirates, as Vista's 'VLK2' has been kind of worked around, I suspect SP1 appearing so suddenly is to disable the keys used.
Edited by ThePassenger on Thursday 25th January 19:29
Hmm do you know the preorder and sales figs for retail Vista? Its in the tens of millions I believe.
Have a look at the link posted and look at he comments re Windows Server 2007...
Features are always cut in a large development.. and I cant think of anything positive to say about a situation if for example MS had said, we will release Vista then wont update it for 18 months.
SP1 I hope will fix some issues that will be found, and also introduce more features, which is cool by me. Im installing Ultimate this weekend, but to be honest Im more interested in Windows Home server.
stuh said:
All my usual mp3 tools, EAC, AccurateRip, iTunes, etc all working fine under Vista.
The MCE functionality is a bonus to the 360 as well
Microsoft have definitely learnt their lessons from the initial poor XP release, and have obviously delayed Vista to make sure they get the first release as solid as possible.
The MCE functionality is a bonus to the 360 as well
Microsoft have definitely learnt their lessons from the initial poor XP release, and have obviously delayed Vista to make sure they get the first release as solid as possible.
Edited by stuh on Friday 26th January 04:32
The 360 integration is great. It isn't a huge step up from MCE2005 though.
Bodo said:
Scraggles said:
Anyone like DRM > ie the odd movie in say avi format or any mp3 that u have ripped from your cd's, they are not microsoft approved and so wont play, then u get an offer to delete the offending file and that's about it
I can't believe this! Does this mean you can't play your own music in Vista when it's not DRM'd?
The media centre fucntionality is my main reason for buying vista. The Aero user interface is fantastic and it seems to run more quickly than XP and all my (admittedly common or garden) components were recognised and installed - either automatically from the drivers on the DVD or from windows update.
I upgraded xp to vista business the other day when our maps arrived.
Apart from watchguard VPN client, I've not had any problems. (Anybody know about this?)
Also using Office 2007.
Oh, I did upgrade my laptop from 1gb to 2gb ram as it was using all the 1gb with the programs I run.
Apart from watchguard VPN client, I've not had any problems. (Anybody know about this?)
Also using Office 2007.
Oh, I did upgrade my laptop from 1gb to 2gb ram as it was using all the 1gb with the programs I run.
Edited by size13 on Friday 26th January 09:29
I've installed Vista Business and like it; interface is great, it is much faster than the previous XP Pro installation (which was due for a reinstall), but I've run into a few problems.
Occasionally, the system will just reboot; no BSOD or warning, just a full reboot. Probably a rogue driver.
Drivers are proving a problem though; Logitech Webcam (< 12 months old) - no drivers, no plans; Adaptec 2906 SCSI card - no drivers, no plans; Creative SoundBlaster Live - no drivers, no plans; HP ScanJet 6200C - no drivers, possible; Wacom tablet; driver installs and tablet works, but Vista is convinced that it's failed (probably driver issue); AVG Firewall does not work.
The instant search is great though; can see that being used a lot.
Occasionally, the system will just reboot; no BSOD or warning, just a full reboot. Probably a rogue driver.
Drivers are proving a problem though; Logitech Webcam (< 12 months old) - no drivers, no plans; Adaptec 2906 SCSI card - no drivers, no plans; Creative SoundBlaster Live - no drivers, no plans; HP ScanJet 6200C - no drivers, possible; Wacom tablet; driver installs and tablet works, but Vista is convinced that it's failed (probably driver issue); AVG Firewall does not work.
The instant search is great though; can see that being used a lot.
rich1231 said:
Hmm do you know the preorder and sales figs for retail Vista? Its in the tens of millions I believe.
Which is a drop in the ocean of machines running Windows. It's a good take up but, I'd suspect similar figures from XP's pre-order period. Retail sales don't mean jack in the grand scheme of things though, they make their money from corporate licensing and OEM sales via the big box shifters.
rich1231 said:
Features are always cut in a large development.. and I cant think of anything positive to say about a situation if for example MS had said, we will release Vista then wont update it for 18 months.
SP1 I hope will fix some issues that will be found, and also introduce more features, which is cool by me. Im installing Ultimate this weekend, but to be honest Im more interested in Windows Home server.
To be honest, the release date of Vista-SP1 is neither a good thing nor a bad thing. As I said, Microsoft like IBM (substitute the ultimate evil for any other huge mega corp) will release stuff when they want to and public opinion be dammed. However, 6 months between Vista and Vista-SP1 does suggest that the product is missing 'something' or has /is anticipated to have bits which don't quite work in all situations. This is acceptable to me, it's a commonly used statistic that 80% of your beta testers test 10% of the product. The really worrying thing is that SP's are often used to roll up the previous security releases, so in some respects Microsoft are suggesting (to me at least) that Vista's much touted security improvements are not going to survive long in a real world situation.
To be honest, nothing from the Microsoft stable interests me these days; I knew/know NT4 like the back of my hand, 2kS/AS adding nothing of any great challenge. AD... wooo... LDAP... 2k3's "Shadow Volume" stuff is just soft locking... meh... I will investigate 2k7 at some point, I really don't expect it to bring anything with it that makes it sufficiently new/different from NT4 which will fox me
ThePassenger said:
rich1231 said:
Hmm do you know the preorder and sales figs for retail Vista? Its in the tens of millions I believe.
Which is a drop in the ocean of machines running Windows. It's a good take up but, I'd suspect similar figures from XP's pre-order period. Retail sales don't mean jack in the grand scheme of things though, they make their money from corporate licensing and OEM sales via the big box shifters.
rich1231 said:
Features are always cut in a large development.. and I cant think of anything positive to say about a situation if for example MS had said, we will release Vista then wont update it for 18 months.
SP1 I hope will fix some issues that will be found, and also introduce more features, which is cool by me. Im installing Ultimate this weekend, but to be honest Im more interested in Windows Home server.
To be honest, the release date of Vista-SP1 is neither a good thing nor a bad thing. As I said, Microsoft like IBM (substitute the ultimate evil for any other huge mega corp) will release stuff when they want to and public opinion be dammed. However, 6 months between Vista and Vista-SP1 does suggest that the product is missing 'something' or has /is anticipated to have bits which don't quite work in all situations. This is acceptable to me, it's a commonly used statistic that 80% of your beta testers test 10% of the product. The really worrying thing is that SP's are often used to roll up the previous security releases, so in some respects Microsoft are suggesting (to me at least) that Vista's much touted security improvements are not going to survive long in a real world situation.
To be honest, nothing from the Microsoft stable interests me these days; I knew/know NT4 like the back of my hand, 2kS/AS adding nothing of any great challenge. AD... wooo... LDAP... 2k3's "Shadow Volume" stuff is just soft locking... meh... I will investigate 2k7 at some point, I really don't expect it to bring anything with it that makes it sufficiently new/different from NT4 which will fox me
So you know everything then?
Gassing Station | Computers, Gadgets & Stuff | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff