Discussion
Sorry no pics, however I was just thinking about when Porsche almost certainly bring out the 2009 homologation special mk2, what improvements it will possibly offer the current one? Power hike up by 15-20hp to 440bhp? Tourque piercing the magic 300lbs/ft barrier? I read somwehere that Porsche are unlikely to generate more power from the current 3.6L lump but i'm sure either a new freer flowing exhaust system and maybe an ECU remap could yield more power? Porsche are unlikely to touch the internals. The Mk II is unlikely to lose any weight going by previous marques, probably will put on a few pounds.
The one thing I don't like about the current GT3 is the suede steering wheel and gearknob - after your palms get all sweaty from the sheer excitement surely this all retained on wheel - not very hygenic. Anyway...
Just a bit of (personal) speculation on a friday morning!
Could they purrlease make the thing a bit lighter? Would it be madly radical to suggest that maybe a bit of carbon-fibre bodywork wouldn't go amiss? BMW seem to be able to manage it. Though it was hardly a featherweight, a decent effort was made with the M3 CSL, with its carbon roof, plastics, stripped out door cards and its paper-floored boot. Could we put down the beans and calculators for a minute at Porsche and do a bit of engineering? MMhh? Are we rich enough there yet to remember what we're supposed to be doing? Or is the mission statement now ALL bottom-line related?
I very nearly specced the thicker leather s'wheel instead of the suede one. But I didn't on the basis that you cannot get a suede s'wheel on standard 997's so it's another thing that makes the GT3 different.
Anyway my hands stay nice and cool under the most adrenalin pumping situations
Anyway my hands stay nice and cool under the most adrenalin pumping situations
loach said:
Could they purrlease make the thing a bit lighter? Would it be madly radical to suggest that maybe a bit of carbon-fibre bodywork wouldn't go amiss? BMW seem to be able to manage it. Though it was hardly a featherweight, a decent effort was made with the M3 CSL, with its carbon roof, plastics, stripped out door cards and its paper-floored boot. Could we put down the beans and calculators for a minute at Porsche and do a bit of engineering? MMhh? Are we rich enough there yet to remember what we're supposed to be doing? Or is the mission statement now ALL bottom-line related?
Actually the body panels - with the exception of the doors - are quite light. If Porsche made a 3.8 GT3 engine, put it in the 997 chasis and added a carbon bonnet, bootlid and doors and added the electric power steering pump from the cup car (sits under the dash and saves 35kg) you'd have a very good car. With a few other weight savings, this car could be brought just under 1300KG without aircon, proding the driver didnt spec it to high heaven..
That would be a very good car..
Steve R
s3am said:
Will only the RS be getting a 3.8 lump? For me that would be the most exciting development.
If so would it still be based on the old GT/Turbo 3.6 or on the new C2S/C4S 3.8?
If so would it still be based on the old GT/Turbo 3.6 or on the new C2S/C4S 3.8?
I don't ever think any Porsche GT would be based on the current carrera 3.8 engine - unless they seriously modified the internals.
The boxter/carrera/cayman engines are not what you might term 'exotic' in the way the older (and gt3) engines are - don't think they would be suitable for a serious race-bred car.
They might be able to get more capacity out of the current gt3 3.6 though - the 993RS was 3.8 and the crank-case + crank are related.
steve rance said:
If Porsche made a 3.8 GT3 engine, put it in the 997 chasis and added a carbon bonnet, bootlid and doors and added the electric power steering pump from the cup car (sits under the dash and saves 35kg) you'd have a very good car. With a few other weight savings, this car could be brought just under 1300KG without aircon, proding the driver didnt spec it to high heaven..
That would be a very good car..
Steve R
That would be a very good car..
Steve R
A 997GT3RSR for the masses... bring it on! Please Porsche...
steve rance said:
loach said:
Could they purrlease make the thing a bit lighter? Would it be madly radical to suggest that maybe a bit of carbon-fibre bodywork wouldn't go amiss? BMW seem to be able to manage it. Though it was hardly a featherweight, a decent effort was made with the M3 CSL, with its carbon roof, plastics, stripped out door cards and its paper-floored boot. Could we put down the beans and calculators for a minute at Porsche and do a bit of engineering? MMhh? Are we rich enough there yet to remember what we're supposed to be doing? Or is the mission statement now ALL bottom-line related?
Actually the body panels - with the exception of the doors - are quite light. If Porsche made a 3.8 GT3 engine, put it in the 997 chasis and added a carbon bonnet, bootlid and doors and added the electric power steering pump from the cup car (sits under the dash and saves 35kg) you'd have a very good car. With a few other weight savings, this car could be brought just under 1300KG without aircon, proding the driver didnt spec it to high heaven..
That would be a very good car..
Steve R
And add a variable program ECU to cope with the up and coming ever so environmental E85 (85% ethanol / 15% petrol), and you have an environmetally kind, road/track compatible, 450 bhp motor weighing 1300Kg.
Will the 998 GT3 be a V8 ? Think I'll out in my deposit now.
steve rance said:
loach said:
Could they purrlease make the thing a bit lighter? Would it be madly radical to suggest that maybe a bit of carbon-fibre bodywork wouldn't go amiss? BMW seem to be able to manage it. Though it was hardly a featherweight, a decent effort was made with the M3 CSL, with its carbon roof, plastics, stripped out door cards and its paper-floored boot. Could we put down the beans and calculators for a minute at Porsche and do a bit of engineering? MMhh? Are we rich enough there yet to remember what we're supposed to be doing? Or is the mission statement now ALL bottom-line related?
Actually the body panels - with the exception of the doors - are quite light. If Porsche made a 3.8 GT3 engine, put it in the 997 chasis and added a carbon bonnet, bootlid and doors and added the electric power steering pump from the cup car (sits under the dash and saves 35kg) you'd have a very good car. With a few other weight savings, this car could be brought just under 1300KG without aircon, proding the driver didnt spec it to high heaven..
That would be a very good car..
Steve R
Agree mate. Except the air con bit!!
steve rance said:
loach said:
Could they purrlease make the thing a bit lighter? Would it be madly radical to suggest that maybe a bit of carbon-fibre bodywork wouldn't go amiss? BMW seem to be able to manage it. Though it was hardly a featherweight, a decent effort was made with the M3 CSL, with its carbon roof, plastics, stripped out door cards and its paper-floored boot. Could we put down the beans and calculators for a minute at Porsche and do a bit of engineering? MMhh? Are we rich enough there yet to remember what we're supposed to be doing? Or is the mission statement now ALL bottom-line related?
Actually the body panels - with the exception of the doors - are quite light. If Porsche made a 3.8 GT3 engine, put it in the 997 chasis and added a carbon bonnet, bootlid and doors and added the electric power steering pump from the cup car (sits under the dash and saves 35kg) you'd have a very good car. With a few other weight savings, this car could be brought just under 1300KG without aircon, proding the driver didnt spec it to high heaven..
That would be a very good car..
Steve R
No argument with your suggestions, Steve. But reading through the old EVO article posted on another thread relating to the greatest 911 ever etc etc, it's hard to miss that the old 3.0 RS weighs in at around 900 kilos. Given that we're 30 years on now in materials and technology, are we all collectively happy that 1300 kilos now represents a featherweight 911? The 911 has grown a bit - granted. But with 10-15% growth in size at a guess, is it not feasible to counter the dimensional growth with a commensurate reduction in weight to keep things on a par? Rather than an air-cooled 3.0 litre, there's now a heavier water-cooled motor, so I can relate to a bit of additional weight there. Equally, systems like ABS, airbags, electronic damping, power steering, engine management boxes and so on add up to a fair bit no doubt. Wheels, tyres and brakes have grown in size and weight. But with a lot of these bits and pieces, is there not some sort of law of dimishing returns in play? Over one and a half tons for a 997 TT seems grotesque. I read elsewhere that the next 911 gestation will add direct injection in an effort to bring a 10% improvement in fuel consumption. Is it that hard to shed a few pounds that any improvement at all has to be looked for in the drivetrain? If the cars were a bit lighter, that to me would represent a much more sound stepping stone for development. 1100-1200 kilos. Is that out of the question? And if it is with the current bodyshell, then why not just make it a tiny bit smaller again? Is this the fatsos Stateside again forcing we smaller Europeans to cope with cars designed to take a 10 gallon hat, a pint of cawfee and a paunch the size of a beanbag?
With the economies of scale Porsche can now bring to bear, there's no excusing their not being at or near the forefront in bringing cutting edge solutions to bear on their products. Equally, I see their position as being the most profitable car maker on the planet as being untenable as long as they refuse to compete with other manufacturers on track, or innovate where others don't, or in some way reinvest their profits in something other than just buying other companies. Just how long customers will be satisfied to hear that Porsche is making a fortune whilst giving the least possible amount back to the customer in terms of R+D is anyone's guess. But I'm already grumpy about it. Is it just me? It's all very comfy for them where they are now, but just how long do they expect to rest on their laurels?
Would ye feckin' go race ye lazy feckin' whores?
The usual caveats apply here - I like Porsches, and thing the current line up is fine and dandy. But it's not that special IMO. The GT3 is the best thing they make right now, and on its own, it has a lot of work to do to carry Porsche's reputation as manufacturer of the World's finest sportscars on its back.
Porsche GT3 said:
The current GT3 and RS is brand new and rumours of the mk2 have already started! It will take a number of years before Porsche releases an updated model, not to upset customers who have just bought a very expensive car.
I agree 100%..........
BTW what improvements do people think the 998GT3 mk2 will have over the mk1?
997gt3 said:
Porsche GT3 said:
The current GT3 and RS is brand new and rumours of the mk2 have already started! It will take a number of years before Porsche releases an updated model, not to upset customers who have just bought a very expensive car.
I agree 100%..........
BTW what improvements do people think the 998GT3 mk2 will have over the mk1?
What's wrong with speculating about the 997 facelift? Pictures are being published and I for one think the 3.8 development will be quite exciting: after all 3 generations of GT3 have now featured the trusty 3.6.
That is not to say the new car is not worth discussing.
Pork_n_Beem said:
No its a typo... a whole steering rack, colomn, pump, bottle, fluid and pipes wont weigh 35Kg. You need rack, motor, control box, wiring and colomn.
I would estimate the diff around 5 - 7 kg ?
I would estimate the diff around 5 - 7 kg ?
Presumably you'd get a bit more power available too as you wouldn't need the pump hung off the engine?
I'd be a little concerned about what it would do to steering feel too.
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