The Devil and the deep blue sea

[GTWayne]

1.8.2004 I had a big accident. You have heard it before: Early Sunday morning, out for a ride, 7 of us in convoy and I was 5th in line. Country lane, round a blind bend, not speeding or doing anything wrong and BAM! 15 Ton livestock transporter on my side of the road. 4 days unconscious, smashed femur and head wounds, couldn't work for a year and can't walk properly even now. One other of our party in front of me lost his life poor man. Anyway, here is the rub: I am in Sainsbury's getting fuel and I am behind 2 X learners and their instructor. The instructor goes in to pay for the fuel and I find myself talking to these two young fellas explaining how dangerous ridding a bike can be and I could just see in their eyes the excitement and anticipation that I too experienced as a novice only five years previous at being out on the road on a motorbike. I will never ride on the road again and although do not advocate it as a direct result of my situation find it hard to condone due to the possibility of a negative outcome. A weird feeling, I kind of want to encourage and dissuade newbies all at the same time.

[rumpelstiltskin]

Im three quarters through training to be an instructor and this is one thing that's really starting to dawn on me,the huge responsibility i have for the two students that will be out on the road with me,plus looking after myself at the same time!I can only tell them how to look after themselves as best i can,it's up to other road users to stick to their side of the bargain.

[wendyg]

Turn it around, though. If someone had come over to you in a petrol station, when you were just starting out, and told you a horror story of a big and costly crash, would you have taken it to heart, or would you have dismissed it?

The truth is, you can tell the young'uns the tragic and true stories, and it will make absolutely NO DIFFERENCE!

[black-k1]

I’m sorry to hear about your accident and I understand why you feel that you have a dilemma but would you feel the same if your accident had happened in a car and it was a car driver with L plates getting petrol? Would you be considering suggesting they don’t pass their car test? If you view motorcycling purely as a pleasure activity then I can understand your position but there are those to whom it is still the only viable transport option available.

With the current ‘Nanny State knows best’ view across the decision makers, there is a very serious risk that motorcycling could be legislated out of existence ‘for our own good’. While it is always good to help pass on experience, we must all be careful not to fuel the views of the ill informed.

I don’t know the specifics of your accident, other than those stated in the original post, but I am firmly of the view that any accident involving a bike, where the bike is not stationary, is party the riders fault. (This is not meant as a dig in any way but as something that I hope will make all riders think.) If a rider finds themselves in a circumstance where they have no ‘get out’ option and an accident is inevitable then, even though the other driver may be doing something totally wrong, the rider still has a degree of responsibility for letting themselves get into that situation in the first place. What training has to do is implant into the rider the techniques that are required to avoid such circumstances.

I would suggest that the answer to your dilemma is not to discourage new riders from riding bikes but to encourage them to undertake as much quality training as possible.

Edited by black-k1 on Sunday 28th January 08:32

[Busamav]

black-k1 said:

I am firmly of the view that any accident involving a bike, where the bike is not stationary, is party the riders fault. If a rider finds themselves in a circumstance where they have no ‘get out’ option and an accident is inevitable then, even though the other driver may be doing something totally wrong, the rider still has a degree of responsibility for letting themselves get into that situation in the first place. .

Excellent post , at last I have seen somebody with the same thoughts as me .

When i see people saying they were hit from behind in traffic and they couldnt possibly have avoided it , i just cringe .

It is indeed a very sad story that has been told here , take care guys , and full responsibility ande control of the road and surrounding cars.

[Smiler.]

Busamav said:

When i see people saying they were hit from behind in traffic and they couldnt possibly have avoided it , i just cringe

Not quite sure what your point is here. I agree with the earlier sentiment that when in motion and for most oncoming collisions, there is usually something a rider might have done (or not have done) to avoid/lessen the outcome.

However I was once catapulted over a set of traffic lights whilst waiting at a red light. The driver behind was tuning her radio whilst driving, looked up & hit me at 30+mph. No braking by her, nothing. I fail to see what I could have done to avoid that.

To GTWayne, sorry to hear about your accident.

[Busamav]

My point is not meant to be controversial ,just that keeping a watchful eye on the traffic behind you is as important as those in front of you , and slowing the cars down by use of plenty of flashing brake lights and also road positioning.

I wont take my bike out of gear or stop watching until the traffic behind me is at a halt, its also a good idea to stop a long way from the car in front .
Something I also do in a car .

But i am an old fart and extra cautious , i trust nobody out there .

[anonymous-user]

Good posts black-k1 and busamav! At the end of the day we bikers are more vulnerable than others so anything we can do to make our riding safer has to be a good thing. If that means being more observant, taking extra precautions, making ourselves as visible as possible, then so be it.

[711]

Smiler. said:

However I was once catapulted over a set of traffic lights whilst waiting at a red light. The driver behind was tuning her radio whilst driving, looked up & hit me at 30+mph. No braking by her, nothing. I fail to see what I could have done to avoid that.

This is one reason I often filter up to the front of the line, even if there are only a couple of vehicles in the queue.

I'm not saying that you can protect yourself from being rear ended in every single scenario of course...

GTWayne, I'm sorry to hear of your injuries and lost friend Hope the rest of your recovery goes well

[stigcv8]

I dont think anyone has the right to try and disuade someone from doing something, especially biking. No one really needs a lesson in biking being dangerous and, sorry to say, I feel what you said (or wanted to say) to the learners was misplaced.

You can rest asured that each learner is given the hard facts about how dangerous riding can be and if it was like my training, just how stupid running from the police can be too.

I too had a huge crash back in 2000 but I don't go around telling learner drivers not to start driving as it can be dangerous...

[GTWayne]

stigcv8 said:

I dont think anyone has the right to try and disuade someone from doing something, especially biking. No one really needs a lesson in biking being dangerous and, sorry to say, I feel what you said (or wanted to say) to the learners was misplaced.

You can rest asured that each learner is given the hard facts about how dangerous riding can be and if it was like my training, just how stupid running from the police can be too.

I too had a huge crash back in 2000 but I don't go around telling learner drivers not to start driving as it can be dangerous...

I have always believed that any individual should be allowed and not prohibited from doing whatever they want to do (you only get one life, this is not a rehearsal and all that) and was merely pointing out that at that moment the other day whilst in the garage and seeing those young lads all excited and apprehensive, made me feel unusually emotional about what had happened to me and I just wanted to convey the seriousness of what they were doing, was not saying don't do it, would not dare. I would go back out on a bike (on the road) tomorrow if it might not upset and disturb everyone that I know, but the pressure is to great and being part of a family, I do not think it fair to those that care about me.

Thanks to those who wished me well