The cheekiest thread alive...
Discussion
OK to get away from some of the mad war threads, i thought i'd finally get around to posting a thread i have been wanting to, but it never quite sounds right....
Basically i own an old classic car, i want to supercharge it. I have designed a new engine that would take the supercharger as a built in unit rather than a bolt on aftermarket job. Thing is of course a good engine well built and well thought out cost mulah (££££££) - and unforunately my cash cricsis has just hit 'mucho criticalis!!'
I have spent rather a lot getting the rest of the car sorted and is now a pretty sweet handler - i don't want to stuff a v8, in i want a supercharger....
So the question is, what legitimate ways have i got to raise money for the car?? I'm not talking of bank loans (have one already thanks), or selling my body on the street (i think the only way it would make money would be stripped out for parts anyway...
) i'm talking of the fact that lots of car companies and what not seem to tirelesssly waste their money on dumbass things, so how does my less dumbass project (IMO) get into their view in order for me to get cash out of them..?
Seems a lot of you people are in marketing/ do a bit of the ol' networking. How do you go about it??
Come on guys, i need to justify the "speed matters" part of the pistonheads sticker.... at the moment i'm thinking it might be hypocritical and maybe i should take that bit off...
Cheers, Buff
Oh and american views are welcome here
Basically i own an old classic car, i want to supercharge it. I have designed a new engine that would take the supercharger as a built in unit rather than a bolt on aftermarket job. Thing is of course a good engine well built and well thought out cost mulah (££££££) - and unforunately my cash cricsis has just hit 'mucho criticalis!!'
I have spent rather a lot getting the rest of the car sorted and is now a pretty sweet handler - i don't want to stuff a v8, in i want a supercharger....
So the question is, what legitimate ways have i got to raise money for the car?? I'm not talking of bank loans (have one already thanks), or selling my body on the street (i think the only way it would make money would be stripped out for parts anyway...
) i'm talking of the fact that lots of car companies and what not seem to tirelesssly waste their money on dumbass things, so how does my less dumbass project (IMO) get into their view in order for me to get cash out of them..? Seems a lot of you people are in marketing/ do a bit of the ol' networking. How do you go about it??
Come on guys, i need to justify the "speed matters" part of the pistonheads sticker.... at the moment i'm thinking it might be hypocritical and maybe i should take that bit off...
Cheers, Buff
Oh and american views are welcome here
Simple,
Put together a portfolio of your project including how you started, progression, cost to yourself, the reason why you are doing this and also the detailed plans of supercharged engine. This is all very basic stuff that any prospective sponser would need.
Next you need a "spin", something that will make them want to help, something they can get out of it....
Some vague ideas....
1) Charity, all companies love doing charity work, especically if it gets into the press etc....you could off to lend your car to carry a sick child to a hospital appointment or prehaps treat a poorly kid to a ride in his/her favorite car
2) Promotion, Could you have their company name on your car for shows, websites, meets etc etc.
3) Greed, find an MD of a company who has a particular interest or love for your car, get him to cough up the cash in an offer to let him have it for a week..
Any help mail me!
Put together a portfolio of your project including how you started, progression, cost to yourself, the reason why you are doing this and also the detailed plans of supercharged engine. This is all very basic stuff that any prospective sponser would need.
Next you need a "spin", something that will make them want to help, something they can get out of it....
Some vague ideas....
1) Charity, all companies love doing charity work, especically if it gets into the press etc....you could off to lend your car to carry a sick child to a hospital appointment or prehaps treat a poorly kid to a ride in his/her favorite car
2) Promotion, Could you have their company name on your car for shows, websites, meets etc etc.
3) Greed, find an MD of a company who has a particular interest or love for your car, get him to cough up the cash in an offer to let him have it for a week..
Any help mail me!
I'm afraid its only an MGB GT (i know i know laugh if you want, but it was relatively cheap and its in good nick and is good fun, its just too slow). Besides its a stop gap cos I'm supposed to be saving for something else
My point that very few MGB's have been supercharged and even those that have (i know of only 2 built with a third being a possiblity - none in this country), only one of them was to the quality i want to get it at. I'm not slagging off those guys craftsmanship here (ncase they are reading this) What i mean is i am after a high end conversion, i.e. double power output of standard yet remain an very useable but quick car. If got a serious agenda, its not a fly by night idea.....
I have some friends who have started up a racing consultancy and although young guys seem to have no trouble getting people to give them freebies, cash incentives, whatever.... I know there's money out there, somehow, some of us lesser mortals must be able to get our grubby paws on it....!
I do have one lead, but its been left at more to them than to me to get in contact, i.e. they have my details given by a respected third party member who knows what i am trying to do. I don't have their details though and i have not heard much from them.....
All answers apreciated, but Kevin mate try to dress it up a bit more hey?? A little positive thinking - just humour me
My point that very few MGB's have been supercharged and even those that have (i know of only 2 built with a third being a possiblity - none in this country), only one of them was to the quality i want to get it at. I'm not slagging off those guys craftsmanship here (ncase they are reading this) What i mean is i am after a high end conversion, i.e. double power output of standard yet remain an very useable but quick car. If got a serious agenda, its not a fly by night idea.....
I have some friends who have started up a racing consultancy and although young guys seem to have no trouble getting people to give them freebies, cash incentives, whatever.... I know there's money out there, somehow, some of us lesser mortals must be able to get our grubby paws on it....!
I do have one lead, but its been left at more to them than to me to get in contact, i.e. they have my details given by a respected third party member who knows what i am trying to do. I don't have their details though and i have not heard much from them.....
All answers apreciated, but Kevin mate try to dress it up a bit more hey?? A little positive thinking - just humour me
MGBGT with double the power - so that's up from approx. 80bhp to 160bhp? Well that was done years ago by Ken Costello with his Costello MGB V8. (which incidentally was reckoned to be far better than the Leyland MGBGTV8) - Personally I can't see why supercharging an old BMC "B series" 4 cyl 1800 engine would be a better solution than putting a decent Rover V8 in there? Rich...
Yeah i know -starts to get shaky ground now maybe..? BUT!! Everybody sticks a v8 in there, i want to try something different. Forced induction appeals to me, i want to do it as a project.
Loadsa people drive these cars and never think about sticking a v8 in there but want ways of getting more power out of thier standard engine.
I think it would make an interesting proect and one if done right could be quite a hit. I'm trying for the higher side of 160hp by the way too.... It should be do-able, things have moved on slightly since costello tried it. I have never seen one of his conversions though.
I know i have things against me such as the fact the car is as common as muck, if i was using an old alfa or something a bit more rare, it might have a mad appeal to it - but the fact that literally everybody at one time in their life has owned an MG i thought this might appeal - play on teh "remember when you owned one" aspect of it perhaps....!
Come on people forget that war for a minute work for me, GET ME CASH!!!
:cough(actnatural)sorrygetcarriedawayabitsometimes:
>> Edited by Buffalo on Thursday 10th April 10:45
Loadsa people drive these cars and never think about sticking a v8 in there but want ways of getting more power out of thier standard engine.
I think it would make an interesting proect and one if done right could be quite a hit. I'm trying for the higher side of 160hp by the way too.... It should be do-able, things have moved on slightly since costello tried it. I have never seen one of his conversions though.
I know i have things against me such as the fact the car is as common as muck, if i was using an old alfa or something a bit more rare, it might have a mad appeal to it - but the fact that literally everybody at one time in their life has owned an MG i thought this might appeal - play on teh "remember when you owned one" aspect of it perhaps....!
Come on people forget that war for a minute work for me, GET ME CASH!!!
:cough(actnatural)sorrygetcarriedawayabitsometimes:
>> Edited by Buffalo on Thursday 10th April 10:45
That's 'cos it's probabaly the easiest way to achieve the desired result.
Buffalo said: Everybody sticks a v8 in there
Shorrock made superchargers for british sports cars in the 60's I'm sure they did a kit for the MGB, try searching back through old mag's of the era etc.
Forced induction appeals to me
Having knocked around the MGCC racing scene with MGA's and MGB's in the 70's I can tell you the standard approach is; Fully balance the engine (blueprint it), they shake themselves to bits otherwise, lighten the flywheel - it's too heavy, fit HRG/Derrington cross-flow cylinder head - if you can find one, enlarge to 2,000cc (unless you are racing in a cat that stipulates 1,800cc - by doing this you will also oncrease the compression ratio which needs to be around 10:1, twin webber 45 DCOE carbs, decent hand-made manifolds and pipes - the BMC jobs are crap, change cam for piper stage 2/3 jobbie, do some hand polishing on the ports, oh and you can get bigger inlet valves fitted, then... for heavens sake, upgrade suspension and brakes! That should give you 105-110 bhp. Oh and sorry you will never get 160bhp+ from the 4 cyl BMC wngine even with a blower - well you might but you'll blow it apart!!!
Loadsa people drive these cars and never think about sticking a v8 in there but want ways of getting more power out of thier standard engine....
Good luck! Rich... I'm trying for the higher side of 160hp by the way too.... It should be do-able, things have moved on slightly since costello tried it.
Hey Rich
Some how get the feeling i should know you from somewhere
Anyhow, cheers for your replies, i have been looking at ways to increase power for yonks now, the way you describe is the most common (and tried and tested route) - theres nothing wrong with that - i have set this as my back up route if all else fails.....
I don't want to go into all the details here but i reckon i should be able to nudge 180BHP (flywheel) the last 20 to 200BHP might be a tad tricky to get at - it needs money, and might also start to make the car a bit temperamental. The idea is to continue to use it normally.
Derrington corssflow heads can see 185BHP at the flywheel, more if you want to i should think, thats with a B series. My engine uses an alloy head but is not crossflow. I have no experience of using crossflow heads with superchargers but it may be a worthwhile way of gaining a few more BHP without necessarily blowing the beast.... Most of the significant power gains from the B come from its head (ooer missus)
Its really frustrating cos i am sure i can do this, but i want to return to college soon and i am torn between spending my money now and knackering my chances to study or waiting till i finish college and am in a better position, but potentially it could have been done by then. Forced induction is coming back in fashion, lots of mainstream manufacturers are doing it already (merc etc). Usually what happens is when a trend comes in for modern cars, enthusiast type people start to reinvent the idea for their cars....
I wasn't knocking the v8 conversion by the way, its just not what i want to do at this time....!
Cheers, Buff
Oh brakes and suspension sorted in anticipation
Some how get the feeling i should know you from somewhere
Anyhow, cheers for your replies, i have been looking at ways to increase power for yonks now, the way you describe is the most common (and tried and tested route) - theres nothing wrong with that - i have set this as my back up route if all else fails.....
I don't want to go into all the details here but i reckon i should be able to nudge 180BHP (flywheel) the last 20 to 200BHP might be a tad tricky to get at - it needs money, and might also start to make the car a bit temperamental. The idea is to continue to use it normally.
Derrington corssflow heads can see 185BHP at the flywheel, more if you want to i should think, thats with a B series. My engine uses an alloy head but is not crossflow. I have no experience of using crossflow heads with superchargers but it may be a worthwhile way of gaining a few more BHP without necessarily blowing the beast.... Most of the significant power gains from the B come from its head (ooer missus)
Its really frustrating cos i am sure i can do this, but i want to return to college soon and i am torn between spending my money now and knackering my chances to study or waiting till i finish college and am in a better position, but potentially it could have been done by then. Forced induction is coming back in fashion, lots of mainstream manufacturers are doing it already (merc etc). Usually what happens is when a trend comes in for modern cars, enthusiast type people start to reinvent the idea for their cars....
I wasn't knocking the v8 conversion by the way, its just not what i want to do at this time....!
Cheers, Buff
Oh brakes and suspension sorted in anticipation
Yeah been on both MG websites (post there a reasonable amount, when i can add something to the discussion) - funnily enough i sometimes find them adverse to trying new things... but there is a lot of knowledge there! Practically noone has looked at putting a supercharger on thats for sure. I seem to be the only one stupid enough to try it..! 
I have looked at putting the K series in, like what the midget boys do - very tempted but chances are from what i have worked out, the cost will be similar to the supercharger (£3k or so) for a good conversion.
I am tempted with this, because the power is more easily attainable than the ageing B series series, but i do really like the idea of forced induction. Cewrtainly i see the K series as the only alternative to a supercharger. I wouldn't use a VVC though, i am a simple lad and think i would get on better with the MPi, but it wouldn't be standard
If one was to (as S2N suggested) try and get sponsorship by sending off to companies, can anyone suggest a type of company to start off at? An engineering firm (tooling etc), maybe a tuning or rolling road company perhaps? I would happily enter into sprints, hillclimbs etc in the aide of charities with the car in return for sponsorship - am not a bad driver when i put my mind to it and i would be returning their favour, by publicity at least, even if i didn't win anything!! The uniqueness of the build guarrantees some localised press surely??
I wouldn't be looking for lots, but some form of incentive would be enough to get me off the fence and get me building. I am certain it will be a cracking build anyhow!!
Cheers!! Buff
I have looked at putting the K series in, like what the midget boys do - very tempted but chances are from what i have worked out, the cost will be similar to the supercharger (£3k or so) for a good conversion.
I am tempted with this, because the power is more easily attainable than the ageing B series series, but i do really like the idea of forced induction. Cewrtainly i see the K series as the only alternative to a supercharger. I wouldn't use a VVC though, i am a simple lad and think i would get on better with the MPi, but it wouldn't be standard
If one was to (as S2N suggested) try and get sponsorship by sending off to companies, can anyone suggest a type of company to start off at? An engineering firm (tooling etc), maybe a tuning or rolling road company perhaps? I would happily enter into sprints, hillclimbs etc in the aide of charities with the car in return for sponsorship - am not a bad driver when i put my mind to it and i would be returning their favour, by publicity at least, even if i didn't win anything!! The uniqueness of the build guarrantees some localised press surely??
I wouldn't be looking for lots, but some form of incentive would be enough to get me off the fence and get me building. I am certain it will be a cracking build anyhow!!
Cheers!! Buff
Thought you might have done Buff.
I have found that the B Boys tend to be a little more conservative than the Midget lads. As to why hardly anything has been done on forced induction I would guess because the V8 route is the tried and tested method to easy power.
one thing you could investigate is whether one of the established tuners would enter into development with you i.e. split the costs and they get to market the kit after? Peter Burgess?
Check the Midget archives on superchargers as there has been a lot recently, huge amount of real life information as a couple of the boys have started from scratch (we're currently onto water injection to try and charge cool!).
I have found that the B Boys tend to be a little more conservative than the Midget lads. As to why hardly anything has been done on forced induction I would guess because the V8 route is the tried and tested method to easy power.
one thing you could investigate is whether one of the established tuners would enter into development with you i.e. split the costs and they get to market the kit after? Peter Burgess?
Check the Midget archives on superchargers as there has been a lot recently, huge amount of real life information as a couple of the boys have started from scratch (we're currently onto water injection to try and charge cool!).
SBD
Note i mention above that one lead has my name - i think they might be looking into producing a kit, but it seems i have done most of the hard work for them in terms of spec, so i am hoping for some inroad into their ideas, and see it will come to anything. I could try some others though P-B is one such chap i suppose, i have had a little chat with him regarding engine heads etc....
You Midget guys are bonkers!!! one passed me on the way back from le mans last year at a massive rate of knots!!
Not that i'm jealous or anything.... I think people look straight for v8's and fail to look at anything in between, i would like to do something with the 4 cyl (thoughts of v8 and superchargers are not helping )
Oh and costs i have got to so far is purely using my own costs i.e. parts only no labour, starting with a freshly bored block and new bottom end...
:dreamysigh:
Note i mention above that one lead has my name - i think they might be looking into producing a kit, but it seems i have done most of the hard work for them in terms of spec, so i am hoping for some inroad into their ideas, and see it will come to anything. I could try some others though P-B is one such chap i suppose, i have had a little chat with him regarding engine heads etc....
You Midget guys are bonkers!!! one passed me on the way back from le mans last year at a massive rate of knots!!
Not that i'm jealous or anything.... I think people look straight for v8's and fail to look at anything in between, i would like to do something with the 4 cyl (thoughts of v8 and superchargers are not helping ) Oh and costs i have got to so far is purely using my own costs i.e. parts only no labour, starting with a freshly bored block and new bottom end...
:dreamysigh:
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