E46 M3 vs E90 335i
Discussion
I have recently bought a E90 335i (M Sport, Manual) and have been having an ongoing 'heated discussion' with my dad who ownes a E46 M3 (convertible / smg)
Put Simply..... whats faster in 'real' driving conditions?
If you timed both cars down your favorite twisty B road, where would you put your money?
From owning one and driven the other alot, I'd say it would be extremely close....
Let battle commence.........
Put Simply..... whats faster in 'real' driving conditions?
If you timed both cars down your favorite twisty B road, where would you put your money?
From owning one and driven the other alot, I'd say it would be extremely close....
Let battle commence.........
taffyracer said:
I had a 335 for a weekend, was considering swapping from the M3, it's a nice car, refined and a good engine, but it's not an M, the S54 engine is a masterpiece and the handling is poles apart, no question the M3 is faster on a daily basis, B roads or tracks, it's faster full stop.
Exactly. An M is so much more than just the engine and power. The cars are designed for different market segments, the 335 will have a softer ride, inferior braking etc. The M3 CSL is a match for a GT3 on track, a 335 would be like driving around sat on a pudding. Great road car no doubt, but no M.
Edited by stuh on Thursday 8th February 06:45
I have to disagree.
I drive a 335i M Sport everyday, and have driven my fathers M3 all the way down to alicante in spain so have good experience of both...
On a track the M3 would win hands down! No issue.
but...
on a twisty B road, my money would be on the 335i.
The reason being that the M3 (iconic as it is) loves to be revved, its a screamer! it develops all of its 343bhp at the end of its rev range, there forefore to drive round a twisty B road (like the piranese mountains i did) its constant changing from 2nd to 3rd....
The 335i on the other hand is a more relaxing car designed for exactly that (its no M3) BUT.... it develops its power lower down meaning that that twisty B road is taken in constant 3rd gear, also (im going to upset people here) apart from a track of course, a M Sport 335i on 18's, will out handle a M3 on the 19's!
My conclusion from driven both (and owning one) is that i LOVE the M3! but its performance is not as useable as the 335's, therefore.... Twisty timed B road race.... (evo triangle maybe) the 335i would be quicker!
I drive a 335i M Sport everyday, and have driven my fathers M3 all the way down to alicante in spain so have good experience of both...
On a track the M3 would win hands down! No issue.
but...
on a twisty B road, my money would be on the 335i.
The reason being that the M3 (iconic as it is) loves to be revved, its a screamer! it develops all of its 343bhp at the end of its rev range, there forefore to drive round a twisty B road (like the piranese mountains i did) its constant changing from 2nd to 3rd....
The 335i on the other hand is a more relaxing car designed for exactly that (its no M3) BUT.... it develops its power lower down meaning that that twisty B road is taken in constant 3rd gear, also (im going to upset people here) apart from a track of course, a M Sport 335i on 18's, will out handle a M3 on the 19's!
My conclusion from driven both (and owning one) is that i LOVE the M3! but its performance is not as useable as the 335's, therefore.... Twisty timed B road race.... (evo triangle maybe) the 335i would be quicker!
stuh said:
[quote=taffyracer] The M3 CSL is a match for a GT3 on track, a 335 would be like driving around sat on a pudding.
Edited by stuh on Thursday 8th February 06:45
very bold statement after having owned a CSL as well as driving a GT3 on track.
if the CSL has cups or other stickies as well as APs then it can be a match. depends on lots of things but overall the GT3 is a better driving experience as that is what it was designed for.
bit like the 335 is made for estate agents and bank managers.
the M3 is a hooligans car.
The 335i on the other hand is a more relaxing car designed for exactly that (its no M3) BUT.... it develops its power lower down meaning that that twisty B road is taken in constant 3rd gear, also (im going to upset people here) apart from a track of course, a M Sport 335i on 18's, will out handle a M3 on the 19's!
Sorry but you obviously haven't driven an M3 the way it was intended, there is no comparison really, they are different cars, one is designed for comfort the other is designed with performance in mind, most B roads will be taken in 3rd gear, the M will do 98 in 3rd and is devastating from 40 onwards, track or B roads the result will be the same unless you have a complete idiot behind the wheel, the M bit in the 335 Msport is as close as it gets to being an M3.
Sorry but you obviously haven't driven an M3 the way it was intended, there is no comparison really, they are different cars, one is designed for comfort the other is designed with performance in mind, most B roads will be taken in 3rd gear, the M will do 98 in 3rd and is devastating from 40 onwards, track or B roads the result will be the same unless you have a complete idiot behind the wheel, the M bit in the 335 Msport is as close as it gets to being an M3.
Dont get me wrong, i love M3's driving my fathers down to spain was an amazing road trip, and i'd take an M3 over a 335i every day of the week (if i didnt have kids)
but.... what im saying is that the BMW 3 series has progressed so much that a 'top-of-the-range' 3 series would cause alot of problems for an M3 driver, and an M3 would no way walk it in a race between the two... in fact i still hold firm that on anything like everyday driving the 335i would do it... just goes to show the amount these cars evolve between models...
trust me i have driven an M3 the way its meant to be driven, and ive also drive a 335 so i know what im comparing it to....
M3... fantastic car no question about it (3 years ago)!
Nowdays... would have serious trouble pulling away from a 335i...
but.... what im saying is that the BMW 3 series has progressed so much that a 'top-of-the-range' 3 series would cause alot of problems for an M3 driver, and an M3 would no way walk it in a race between the two... in fact i still hold firm that on anything like everyday driving the 335i would do it... just goes to show the amount these cars evolve between models...
trust me i have driven an M3 the way its meant to be driven, and ive also drive a 335 so i know what im comparing it to....
M3... fantastic car no question about it (3 years ago)!
Nowdays... would have serious trouble pulling away from a 335i...
Rochester BMW said:
I have to disagree.
I drive a 335i M Sport everyday, and have driven my fathers M3 all the way down to alicante in spain so have good experience of both...
On a track the M3 would win hands down! No issue.
but...
on a twisty B road, my money would be on the 335i.
The reason being that the M3 (iconic as it is) loves to be revved, its a screamer! it develops all of its 343bhp at the end of its rev range, there forefore to drive round a twisty B road (like the piranese mountains i did) its constant changing from 2nd to 3rd....
The 335i on the other hand is a more relaxing car designed for exactly that (its no M3) BUT.... it develops its power lower down meaning that that twisty B road is taken in constant 3rd gear, also (im going to upset people here) apart from a track of course, a M Sport 335i on 18's, will out handle a M3 on the 19's!
My conclusion from driven both (and owning one) is that i LOVE the M3! but its performance is not as useable as the 335's, therefore.... Twisty timed B road race.... (evo triangle maybe) the 335i would be quicker!
I drive a 335i M Sport everyday, and have driven my fathers M3 all the way down to alicante in spain so have good experience of both...
On a track the M3 would win hands down! No issue.
but...
on a twisty B road, my money would be on the 335i.
The reason being that the M3 (iconic as it is) loves to be revved, its a screamer! it develops all of its 343bhp at the end of its rev range, there forefore to drive round a twisty B road (like the piranese mountains i did) its constant changing from 2nd to 3rd....
The 335i on the other hand is a more relaxing car designed for exactly that (its no M3) BUT.... it develops its power lower down meaning that that twisty B road is taken in constant 3rd gear, also (im going to upset people here) apart from a track of course, a M Sport 335i on 18's, will out handle a M3 on the 19's!
My conclusion from driven both (and owning one) is that i LOVE the M3! but its performance is not as useable as the 335's, therefore.... Twisty timed B road race.... (evo triangle maybe) the 335i would be quicker!
I've not driven a 335, but i've gone from M3 to M5. The M5's torquey nature is much more akin to that of the 335. However ,when driven propery (ie using the gears to keep it in the power band
) - The M3 would be quicker on all but a motorway, and the the 335 isn't going to live with the M5 imo. Torquey cars often feel subjectively faster becuase of the kidney squeezing nature of the power delivert, but on a stopwatch the truth can be extremely revealing. EDIT - Just pulled up the stats:
335 - 300bhp, 300 lb/ft, 1621Kg
M3 - 343bhp, 262 lb/ft, 1550
Giving up 43bhp and 75KG. I'm not convinced
I'll keep my eyes peeled for 335's on the road
Edited by stuh on Thursday 8th February 12:35
Edited by stuh on Thursday 8th February 12:36
an M5 (V10?), you lucky man! I want one of those next.
yeah your stats do show what im trying to say, M3, very very fast, and the 335 isnt that far behind and its not even an M Power car! just shows how much these cars progress... on the other hand it just shows how amazing the new M3 is likely to be if the range topper E90 can nose-to-tail with an old E46 M3...
the shape of things to come looks promising! Im still insanely jelous of your M5 though!
yeah your stats do show what im trying to say, M3, very very fast, and the 335 isnt that far behind and its not even an M Power car! just shows how much these cars progress... on the other hand it just shows how amazing the new M3 is likely to be if the range topper E90 can nose-to-tail with an old E46 M3...
the shape of things to come looks promising! Im still insanely jelous of your M5 though!
Rochester BMW said:
I have to disagree.
The reason being that the M3 (iconic as it is) loves to be revved, its a screamer! it develops all of its 343bhp at the end of its rev range, there forefore to drive round a twisty B road (like the piranese mountains i did) its constant changing from 2nd to 3rd....
The reason being that the M3 (iconic as it is) loves to be revved, its a screamer! it develops all of its 343bhp at the end of its rev range, there forefore to drive round a twisty B road (like the piranese mountains i did) its constant changing from 2nd to 3rd....
I agree with this statement. The gears on my M3 (Manual) are up and down like a pair of whores draws, it can actually be quite irritating if you're not in hooligan mode, but want to make quick progress. It has poor torque for pulling out strongly of corners if you don't scream the engine. Consequently time can be wasted changing gears compared to a car with a bit more low-end grunt.
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