GET RID OF THESE GREEDY FRAUDSTERS!
Discussion
The road charging scheme has nothing to do with eliminating congestion and it has nothing to do with saving the environment. It is all about stealth tax on anyone they think can afford it, to pay for a public sector that is financially out of control, grossly inefficient government and overpaid and overprivileged politicians at european national and local levels.Their only solution to any problem now is to pay their way out using our money. We have the highest national debt per capita in Europe.
If they wanted to improve the roads and address congestion there are many projects they could undertake but they could start by making sure that those responsible for organising roadworks and setting up and managing traffic lights do it in such a way as to minimise the resulting congestion. The time and money which is lost from this is colossal, not to mention the damage to the environment. Local Authority Road Engineers attitude to this seems to be the more they inconvenience motorists the better because it will encourage them not to use their cars.
Just think about these points:-
1. Why is there so much heavy transport on the roads and not on the railways? Because the government is in the pocket of the road transport lobby. How much congestion, damage to the environment and damage to the roads does that cause? Have they even mentioned it?
Heavy Goods used to be transported nationally AND locally by rail. Anyone who tells you it can't be done is a liar with a financial interest.
2. Is public transport environmentally friendly? Just watch the next bus that passes you by. Do you hold your breath when a bus passes close by, so you don't breathe in pure carbon monoxide and diesel residue? How often do you do that when a car passes? the fact is that the contribution to pollution from modern cars is very small and reducing.
And what are they really doing to improve public transport? Despite all the hot air, precisely nothing. They are going to force us to use it. Full stop.
3. What are they doing about coal fired power stations which is a far larger environmental problem than private cars?
4. Are they reducing their own air travel? No, actually it is increasing. Great international statesmen must, as we all know, travel extensively. And of course they all need chauffeur driven cars, and that goes for MEP's, MSP's and MP's.
5. Why can you never find a garage with a working air pump and water? Is that not a road safety issue? Because they can't force the garages to provide them, which in turn is because garages are so unprofitable that they are going out of business by the dozen, and that is because of the level of tax on petrol/diesel.
I could go on and on. Politicians are about as out of touch with reality as Louis XVI was with France. It's time to give them a message. Firing the current lot at the next election would be a start. Not that the Tories are any better - just sack every standing MP MSP and MEP for inactivity. We need to get rid of the dead wood which we always get left with at every election. Target every one, Labour, Tory and Lib Dem. They treat us with contempt. They think we are mugs. They are liars thieves and criminals.
Lets be rid of them. Then the next lot might pay some attention to reality.
If they wanted to improve the roads and address congestion there are many projects they could undertake but they could start by making sure that those responsible for organising roadworks and setting up and managing traffic lights do it in such a way as to minimise the resulting congestion. The time and money which is lost from this is colossal, not to mention the damage to the environment. Local Authority Road Engineers attitude to this seems to be the more they inconvenience motorists the better because it will encourage them not to use their cars.
Just think about these points:-
1. Why is there so much heavy transport on the roads and not on the railways? Because the government is in the pocket of the road transport lobby. How much congestion, damage to the environment and damage to the roads does that cause? Have they even mentioned it?
Heavy Goods used to be transported nationally AND locally by rail. Anyone who tells you it can't be done is a liar with a financial interest.
2. Is public transport environmentally friendly? Just watch the next bus that passes you by. Do you hold your breath when a bus passes close by, so you don't breathe in pure carbon monoxide and diesel residue? How often do you do that when a car passes? the fact is that the contribution to pollution from modern cars is very small and reducing.
And what are they really doing to improve public transport? Despite all the hot air, precisely nothing. They are going to force us to use it. Full stop.
3. What are they doing about coal fired power stations which is a far larger environmental problem than private cars?
4. Are they reducing their own air travel? No, actually it is increasing. Great international statesmen must, as we all know, travel extensively. And of course they all need chauffeur driven cars, and that goes for MEP's, MSP's and MP's.
5. Why can you never find a garage with a working air pump and water? Is that not a road safety issue? Because they can't force the garages to provide them, which in turn is because garages are so unprofitable that they are going out of business by the dozen, and that is because of the level of tax on petrol/diesel.
I could go on and on. Politicians are about as out of touch with reality as Louis XVI was with France. It's time to give them a message. Firing the current lot at the next election would be a start. Not that the Tories are any better - just sack every standing MP MSP and MEP for inactivity. We need to get rid of the dead wood which we always get left with at every election. Target every one, Labour, Tory and Lib Dem. They treat us with contempt. They think we are mugs. They are liars thieves and criminals.
Lets be rid of them. Then the next lot might pay some attention to reality.
cardigankid said:
The road charging scheme has nothing to do with eliminating congestion and it has nothing to do with saving the environment. It is all about stealth tax on anyone they think can afford it, to pay for a public sector that is financially out of control, grossly inefficient government and overpaid and overprivileged politicians at european national and local levels.Their only solution to any problem now is to pay their way out using our money. We have the highest national debt per capita in Europe.
If they wanted to improve the roads and address congestion there are many projects they could undertake but they could start by making sure that those responsible for organising roadworks and setting up and managing traffic lights do it in such a way as to minimise the resulting congestion. The time and money which is lost from this is colossal, not to mention the damage to the environment. Local Authority Road Engineers attitude to this seems to be the more they inconvenience motorists the better because it will encourage them not to use their cars.
Just think about these points:-
1. Why is there so much heavy transport on the roads and not on the railways? Because the government is in the pocket of the road transport lobby. How much congestion, damage to the environment and damage to the roads does that cause? Have they even mentioned it?
Heavy Goods used to be transported nationally AND locally by rail. Anyone who tells you it can't be done is a liar with a financial interest.
2. Is public transport environmentally friendly? Just watch the next bus that passes you by. Do you hold your breath when a bus passes close by, so you don't breathe in pure carbon monoxide and diesel residue? How often do you do that when a car passes? the fact is that the contribution to pollution from modern cars is very small and reducing.
And what are they really doing to improve public transport? Despite all the hot air, precisely nothing. They are going to force us to use it. Full stop.
3. What are they doing about coal fired power stations which is a far larger environmental problem than private cars?
4. Are they reducing their own air travel? No, actually it is increasing. Great international statesmen must, as we all know, travel extensively. And of course they all need chauffeur driven cars, and that goes for MEP's, MSP's and MP's.
5. Why can you never find a garage with a working air pump and water? Is that not a road safety issue? Because they can't force the garages to provide them, which in turn is because garages are so unprofitable that they are going out of business by the dozen, and that is because of the level of tax on petrol/diesel.
I could go on and on. Politicians are about as out of touch with reality as Louis XVI was with France. It's time to give them a message. Firing the current lot at the next election would be a start. Not that the Tories are any better - just sack every standing MP MSP and MEP for inactivity. We need to get rid of the dead wood which we always get left with at every election. Target every one, Labour, Tory and Lib Dem. They treat us with contempt. They think we are mugs. They are liars thieves and criminals.
Lets be rid of them. Then the next lot might pay some attention to reality.
If they wanted to improve the roads and address congestion there are many projects they could undertake but they could start by making sure that those responsible for organising roadworks and setting up and managing traffic lights do it in such a way as to minimise the resulting congestion. The time and money which is lost from this is colossal, not to mention the damage to the environment. Local Authority Road Engineers attitude to this seems to be the more they inconvenience motorists the better because it will encourage them not to use their cars.
Just think about these points:-
1. Why is there so much heavy transport on the roads and not on the railways? Because the government is in the pocket of the road transport lobby. How much congestion, damage to the environment and damage to the roads does that cause? Have they even mentioned it?
Heavy Goods used to be transported nationally AND locally by rail. Anyone who tells you it can't be done is a liar with a financial interest.
2. Is public transport environmentally friendly? Just watch the next bus that passes you by. Do you hold your breath when a bus passes close by, so you don't breathe in pure carbon monoxide and diesel residue? How often do you do that when a car passes? the fact is that the contribution to pollution from modern cars is very small and reducing.
And what are they really doing to improve public transport? Despite all the hot air, precisely nothing. They are going to force us to use it. Full stop.
3. What are they doing about coal fired power stations which is a far larger environmental problem than private cars?
4. Are they reducing their own air travel? No, actually it is increasing. Great international statesmen must, as we all know, travel extensively. And of course they all need chauffeur driven cars, and that goes for MEP's, MSP's and MP's.
5. Why can you never find a garage with a working air pump and water? Is that not a road safety issue? Because they can't force the garages to provide them, which in turn is because garages are so unprofitable that they are going out of business by the dozen, and that is because of the level of tax on petrol/diesel.
I could go on and on. Politicians are about as out of touch with reality as Louis XVI was with France. It's time to give them a message. Firing the current lot at the next election would be a start. Not that the Tories are any better - just sack every standing MP MSP and MEP for inactivity. We need to get rid of the dead wood which we always get left with at every election. Target every one, Labour, Tory and Lib Dem. They treat us with contempt. They think we are mugs. They are liars thieves and criminals.
Lets be rid of them. Then the next lot might pay some attention to reality.
You are right in a lot of what you say and I was going to agree but the simple fact which is ALWAYS overlooked by folk is that YOU CAN'T no mater how or what you do put a train where you can put a truck.
For people that do not understand this simple thing let me try explain.
Trucks have wheels with tyres on that can go ANYWHERE.
Trains have wheels that run on tracks that go to SET places!
Industry is spread out over all areas of this country.
Trucks go to all areas of this country.
Trains go to stations/depots etc and cant go to all areas of this country. This is why we use trucks and not trains! Simple eh!
And yes I am a trucker and I would like to be a train driver but I started so I'll finish I suppose!!
Edited by drags06 on Wednesday 14th February 10:47
cardigankid said:
1. Why is there so much heavy transport on the roads and not on the railways? Because the government is in the pocket of the road transport lobby. How much congestion, damage to the environment and damage to the roads does that cause? Have they even mentioned it?
The main reason is cost. Rail is massively expensive and unflexible. The network is running at capacity for most of the day. If you ship by road, you don't need to cross ship from an inconvenient central rail yard to get the goods to where you actually want them.
The only thing rail freight is cost effective for is long distance, high volume/weight, point-to-point transfer, and even then it costs more than road. Trans-continental works, goods distribution doesn't.
cardigankid said:
5. Why can you never find a garage with a working air pump and water? Is that not a road safety issue? Because they can't force the garages to provide them, which in turn is because garages are so unprofitable that they are going out of business by the dozen, and that is because of the level of tax on petrol/diesel.
The tax on petrol/diesel is the same for all service stations, so has nothing to do with profitability. Its down to competitive pressures - supermarket filling stations, etc.
Edited to add: Good rant though!
Edited by Size Nine Elm on Wednesday 14th February 10:46
I think that we need to start challenging some of these assumptions about road transport which are due to the money and effort invested in it over the last fifty years. I don't claim to be an expert on trains but I do know that local railway stations, of which there used to be a lot more than there are now, even quite small ones, had goods yards from which distribution could be made locally using vans or even milk floats for that matter. You can make containers of all sizes, and these can be sealed and indeed refrigerated. That's the solution, not trucking stuff round Europe. I would also question whether the network is at its capacity, or anywhere near it. Needing investment no doubt. Instead of which I could name the Chief executive of a government sponsored organisation in central Scotland who gets £160k per year for working maybe seven hours a day when he feels like it and not actually doing much during that time. No doubt paid on a 'comparability' basis. But I won't, obviously.
It will be much better being a train driver anyway when we get some proper trains back! And whether they are powered by steam or electricity or whatever.
The supermarket/petrol issue is down to non-competitive pricing by the supermarkets to get customers in the door. How long will that last I wonder. Its common knowledge that margins on fuel which is already far more expensive in this country than Europe, are cut throat. What I am saying is you can only charge what the market will take and the government has already got it up at that level. And you still can't check your tyre pressures without going round about six garages to find one working. Wait till BP gets squeezed out and then enjoy the fun.
It will be much better being a train driver anyway when we get some proper trains back! And whether they are powered by steam or electricity or whatever.
The supermarket/petrol issue is down to non-competitive pricing by the supermarkets to get customers in the door. How long will that last I wonder. Its common knowledge that margins on fuel which is already far more expensive in this country than Europe, are cut throat. What I am saying is you can only charge what the market will take and the government has already got it up at that level. And you still can't check your tyre pressures without going round about six garages to find one working. Wait till BP gets squeezed out and then enjoy the fun.
Edited by cardigankid on Wednesday 14th February 11:15
cardigankid said:
I don't claim to be an expert on trains but I do know that local railway stations, of which there used to be more than there are now, even quite small ones, had goods yards from which distribution could be made locally using vans or even milk floats for that matter. That's the solution, not trucking stuff round Europe. I would also question whether the network is at its capacity, or anywhere near it. Needing investment no doubt. Instead of which I could name the Chief executive of a government sponsored organisation in central Scotland who gets £160k per year for working maybe seven hours a day when he feels like it and not actually doing much during that time. No doubt paid on a 'comparability' basis. But I won't, obviously.
It will be much better being a train driver anyway when we get some proper trains back!
It will be much better being a train driver anyway when we get some proper trains back!
That was a long time ago mate, things have moved on since then. I was one of the lucky kids that used to go down to the local train spot and come back home covered in coal dust etc off the steam engines and then later stinking of diesel from the old Deltics. Remember it well.
But back to today, industries work on a 'just in time system' and that means trains don't fit into the fast 'i want it now not next week' world that we all live in today. Trains are perfect for large 30k tons etc but if its 44 tons or less at a more manageable pace then it is cheaper and best by road as far as industry etc goes.
And talking of fat cats, well to be honest they should all be sh--t at dawn but won't go into that!
I am familiar with the just in time environment and in my experience it is about ensuring that the logistics chain is in place and fully operational. The fact that huge resources have been ploughed into road transport logistics doesn't mean that it is the right and only solution. In the right environment, and I'm talking about switzerland, the trains are an awful lot more reliable than any form of road transport. Best not start on about trains running on time, what?
I didn't mind getting covered in dirt from the steam trains but i would sooner it was just steam. As for those diesels, they are filthy and ugly whatever jackie stewart said.
I didn't mind getting covered in dirt from the steam trains but i would sooner it was just steam. As for those diesels, they are filthy and ugly whatever jackie stewart said.
cardigankid said:
I am familiar with the just in time environment and in my experience it is about ensuring that the logistics chain is in place and fully operational. The fact that huge resources have been ploughed into road transport logistics doesn't mean that it is the right and only solution. In the right environment, and I'm talking about switzerland, the trains are an awful lot more reliable than any form of road transport. Best not start on about trains running on time, what?
I didn't mind getting covered in dirt from the steam trains but i would sooner it was just steam. As for those diesels, they are filthy and ugly whatever jackie stewart said.
I didn't mind getting covered in dirt from the steam trains but i would sooner it was just steam. As for those diesels, they are filthy and ugly whatever jackie stewart said.
Love trains, and actally quite fond of the newest ones (bit of a techophile) and made this same point only a few days ago.
The point is, it's not about getting the train where the truck is, simply removing the middle ground for the trucks.
This country really needs to take the plunge and bring our trains in line with the rest of the continent. Unfortunately, the requirement for the system to pay dividends on an annual basis, rather than provide adequate service tio the commuters is what puts paid to any hope of improvment. In concept: brilliant, in practice: never gonna happen.
Travel in continental Europe and come back to UK and its like going to a sixties theme park. We're becoming a third world country, unless you happen to be a politician, or maybe particularly if you are a politician.
Anyway, the purpose of the thread was not to reminisce about the good old days of steam but to point out that here is this massive problem which impacts both congestion and the environment and do the Govt. tackle it? Do they even mention it? Do they hell. Because they and the transport guys have got their hands deep in each others pockets. Car drivers are however a good target, and their only function is to be milked.
Anyway, the purpose of the thread was not to reminisce about the good old days of steam but to point out that here is this massive problem which impacts both congestion and the environment and do the Govt. tackle it? Do they even mention it? Do they hell. Because they and the transport guys have got their hands deep in each others pockets. Car drivers are however a good target, and their only function is to be milked.
Back in the 1990's I worked at a lubricants blending plant in the South East. They supplied lots of lubes for British Rail's diesel loco's. Bulk engine oils etc were loaded into rail tank cars on-site and trundled to the local railhead by my Company's own small diesel shunter loco. Then one day BR said that delivering their bulk oil by rail was no longer economic and as from a certain date all deliveries would have to be made by road tankers. Customer is always right so our rail siding was torn up and the diesel shunter scrapped, (IIRC). True story. Go figure. Never ever understood the logic of BR's decision.
Getting more freight onto the rails has to be the way to go; at least for medium to long-distance stuff. Getting past that sort of mentality is, however, the real trick. I think the road freight transport lobby is so powerful that I'll not be holding my breath waiting.
Anyone have any similarly idiotic examples ?
Getting more freight onto the rails has to be the way to go; at least for medium to long-distance stuff. Getting past that sort of mentality is, however, the real trick. I think the road freight transport lobby is so powerful that I'll not be holding my breath waiting.
Anyone have any similarly idiotic examples ?
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