Porsche 911 stand alone ecu and throttle body set up.
Discussion
I'm looking for a bit of help.
The time has come for me to start playing with the 911. (3.6 964)
I am looking at fitting throttle bodies which don't concern me.
The injectors also don't concern me.
The ecu side of things I need some help with.
What I want is a system that doesn't rely on a MAF sensor, I want little or nothing in the airflow down the TB's.
So I'm looking at a system that will use a crank position sensor and whatever else is needed to do the job this is the point I don't really know where I am, I'm going to be doing the job myself, except mapping I would like the maps to be done by someone with experience so I get the most out of the car.
What systems are available? Megajolt look cheap can they be used? I want to keep costs down, I don't want the electronic side of the job to exceed 1K really, if it can be done for less great, I imagine one prob I will come across is most of these kits seem aimed at 4 cyl cars with 1 distributor, mine is a 6 cyl with 2 dizzys and 12 plugs.
Anyone with any advice?
The time has come for me to start playing with the 911. (3.6 964)
I am looking at fitting throttle bodies which don't concern me.
The injectors also don't concern me.
The ecu side of things I need some help with.
What I want is a system that doesn't rely on a MAF sensor, I want little or nothing in the airflow down the TB's.
So I'm looking at a system that will use a crank position sensor and whatever else is needed to do the job this is the point I don't really know where I am, I'm going to be doing the job myself, except mapping I would like the maps to be done by someone with experience so I get the most out of the car.
What systems are available? Megajolt look cheap can they be used? I want to keep costs down, I don't want the electronic side of the job to exceed 1K really, if it can be done for less great, I imagine one prob I will come across is most of these kits seem aimed at 4 cyl cars with 1 distributor, mine is a 6 cyl with 2 dizzys and 12 plugs.
Anyone with any advice?
2 dizzys and 12 plugs!
There are a few engine managment manufacturers out there that sell ecus that will do what you want.
You can get rid of the dizzys all together withe the right system running 6 double ended coils. Such an ECU would need 6 coil drivers (or 3 high current drivers) as well as 6 injector drivers and further outputs for the idle control valve. Not cheap
DTA S80 would fit the bill at £900. To that you would have to add the cost of the coils and any additional sensors.
ninemeister do a motec conversion but that is not cheap
HTH
Steve
There are a few engine managment manufacturers out there that sell ecus that will do what you want.
You can get rid of the dizzys all together withe the right system running 6 double ended coils. Such an ECU would need 6 coil drivers (or 3 high current drivers) as well as 6 injector drivers and further outputs for the idle control valve. Not cheap
DTA S80 would fit the bill at £900. To that you would have to add the cost of the coils and any additional sensors.
ninemeister do a motec conversion but that is not cheap
HTH
Steve
If it does in fact use 2 Dizzy's, then surely 2 coils will be sufficient, and just retain the dizzys for spark distribution.
There would be plenty of ecu options.
Megasquirt, www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html
VEMS, http://shop.vems.hu/catalog/product_i
DTA, www.dtafast.co.uk/
Emerald, www.emeraldm3d.com/
Haltech, www.haltech.com/
KMS, www.enginemanagement.co.uk/prod_management.asp
Link, www.linkecu.com/
Motec, Autronic, Pectel, and no doubt countless others.
There would be plenty of ecu options.
Megasquirt, www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html
VEMS, http://shop.vems.hu/catalog/product_i
DTA, www.dtafast.co.uk/
Emerald, www.emeraldm3d.com/
Haltech, www.haltech.com/
KMS, www.enginemanagement.co.uk/prod_management.asp
Link, www.linkecu.com/
Motec, Autronic, Pectel, and no doubt countless others.
wildoliver said:
Hmmm i know the motec set up and to be honest I really can't justify the cost.
Are Omex good? Never actually heard of them before?
Are Omex good? Never actually heard of them before?
Very good,i'm surprised you've not heard of them!The 710 is a very sophisticated ecu,and their freindly and helpfull service is another big plus for me
.Contact them and have a chat with Andrew
wildoliver said:
how would you set the distributor/coils up to trigger though? is there an output on the ecu to do this and I assume you would just have to split this off?
What do you mean ?
The dizzy would do exactly the same job as it always has. Distribute the spark. The ecu would only need to fire 2 coils for this to work.
1 coil for each dizzy, the same way millions of cars have been powered.
The ecu would still control timing etc. The dizzy's only function is to distribute spark to the relevant cylinders.
Sorry didn't explain myself very well, Old cars had points, obviously mine is pointless, so on a car that you took the points off and put electronic inition on you would put a small control box on, which I imagine is replaced on my car by the engine ecu, so does an aftermarket ecu have an output to trigger the coils?
Perhaps...
But the 2 main functions of an ecu to control an engine, are to control fuelling, and to control ignition timing.
2 things.
So I would assume that someone contemplating such a thing would already have a bit of an idea of why they are considering the efi option in the first place.
In all honesty, the question you asked, did seem very odd. Werent you aware that the ecu controls the ignition ??.
The fact you are asking about the crank/cam triggers, and indeed even looking into some ecu options yourself, would lead me and others to assume that you already had a bit of an idea.
But to follow that up with the question I answered rather sarcastically....is strange.
here's a book I reccomend to everyone.
go buy it ( and this isnt me being sarcastic )
www.amazon.co.uk/21st-Century-Performance-Julian-Edgar/dp/0947216901/sr=8-1/qid=1172281298/ref=sr_1_1/203-8426636-5878329?ie=UTF8&s=books
But the 2 main functions of an ecu to control an engine, are to control fuelling, and to control ignition timing.
2 things.
So I would assume that someone contemplating such a thing would already have a bit of an idea of why they are considering the efi option in the first place.
In all honesty, the question you asked, did seem very odd. Werent you aware that the ecu controls the ignition ??.
The fact you are asking about the crank/cam triggers, and indeed even looking into some ecu options yourself, would lead me and others to assume that you already had a bit of an idea.
But to follow that up with the question I answered rather sarcastically....is strange.
here's a book I reccomend to everyone.
go buy it ( and this isnt me being sarcastic )
www.amazon.co.uk/21st-Century-Performance-Julian-Edgar/dp/0947216901/sr=8-1/qid=1172281298/ref=sr_1_1/203-8426636-5878329?ie=UTF8&s=books
wildoliver said:
Thanks thats actually a handy looking book.
I did know that ecu's control timing and fuel, my original question if you look up was regarding splitting the signal from ecu to coil/distributor as there are two on my engine, I assume that is the way around the problem?
I did know that ecu's control timing and fuel, my original question if you look up was regarding splitting the signal from ecu to coil/distributor as there are two on my engine, I assume that is the way around the problem?
Im sure that my DTA could do it. But Id think that any ecu, with at least 2 coil drivers should also be able to do it.
I dont think there are any ecu's available that would have less than 2 coil drivers. 2 is the minimum required for wasted spark ( coils, no dizzy ) on a 4cyinder engine.
Most ecu's will have at least 4 coil drivers though. You may use all, or just one.
If you use one, then you would required a dizzy to distribute the spark.
On my DTA I think you would use coil O/P 1 and 6, and fire them in twin spark mode, but also select dizzy fitted.
It may be worth contacting some of the ecu suppliers, just to make sure each one would be suitable, but I'd think most of them should be.
This would fire the 2 outputs at exactly the same time, all the time
I don't see the point of changing your EMS for an adaptable system and not take advantage of all of the capability of the system. It is going to cost regardless as the biggest single cost is the ECU, so don't waste money and underutilise your expensive new ECU. Go the whole hog!!
Steve
Steve
On my Motec setup I use a Hall reference sensor and a 60:2 crank position sensor, standard TPS and a cosworth map sensor. Lose the dizzys and go to a wasted spark system with a coilpack. Its cheap and outperforms the dizzy setup. Choose your ECU on the basis of who is going to map it and how well they know the system as your biggest cost will be the dyno time to set it up. Do not underestimate the time and effort to build/ wire up the loom and tune the car properly. Figure on at least £2.5k if you can do it all yourself if your ECU costs £800 - £1000. The rest is the cost of the loom £2-300, sensors and wasted spark setup £300 (very rough guess), installation of loom and sensors (depends how quick they are), dyno £500.
Gassing Station | Engines & Drivetrain | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff