Who's the real villain - PW or NS?
Discussion
unrepentant said:
PW for all the reliability problems that were never properly and publicly dealt with and which caused a lot of the issues that faced NS or NS himself for all that followed?
Or both?
Oooo, topical. Or both?
Well my impression is that PW didn't fully know the issues, he wanted to keep customers happy and hence the "goodwill rebuilds" early on. When Melling and TVR parted the surely TVR had to "design" their own engine based loosely on the prototype AJP6, which couldn't have been the easiest task in the world ?
Wouldn't say any of this deserves blame, is just all very unfortunate
As to NS, not shrinking TVR and expanding the models (over and above body styles) would be my dig. Maybe there was some reason that TVR couldn't shrink, leading to the drastic plan now afoot ("TVR Italia",
) ? Steel tubes and fibreglass is the easiest way to make new shapes with low development costs (compared to steel bodied mass produced cars) and strangely TVR reduced its number of models.
Leaving many RV8 owners with no where to go was a lost opportunity (ie a logical progression of engine with low running costs).
Hmmm... Wheeler's sheer bloody-mindedness certainly was responsible for the rise as well as at least part of the fall of TVR, whilst under NS the downwards trend accelerated by about 9.81m per square second 
Would it have been different with anyone else at the helm? We'll never know, and so for the time being it will be the tales of the current management's incompetence and questionable business ethic surrounding the BA deal that stick in our collective minds.
Would it have been different with anyone else at the helm? We'll never know, and so for the time being it will be the tales of the current management's incompetence and questionable business ethic surrounding the BA deal that stick in our collective minds. spartacus said:
FFS, what's the point in endlessly trying to pick over the caracas, why not wait and see what happens as no amount of moaning is going to change anything.
Your difficulties with spelling are matched by your lack of understanding of the question. My point is that for all the vitriol directed at NS wasn't the real villain PW?
unrepentant said:
Your difficulties with spelling are matched by your lack of understanding of the question. My point is that for all the vitriol directed at NS wasn't the real villain PW?
I'm actually quite surprised that, with your recent comments, you can't find a 'sweaty' to blame. Must try harder.
unrepentant said:
spartacus said:
FFS, what's the point in endlessly trying to pick over the caracas, why not wait and see what happens as no amount of moaning is going to change anything.
Your difficulties with spelling are matched by your lack of understanding of the question. My point is that for all the vitriol directed at NS wasn't the real villain PW?
Even though the problems that have led to the situation as of now could ultimatly be blamed on PW I don't thing he should be seen as the villian. He was attempting to build on the success of the Cerbera, Chimaera and Griffith by moving the company up a notch by creating its own range of engines. Of course he failed in this ambition but I don't see why he should be regarded as a villian.
elisek said:
NS had good ideas...
Let me see...
TVR motorbikes, TVR speedboats, Orgasmic Living, moving R&D to Lancaster, moving production across Blackpool, shipping production to Italy, putting the company into administration and having to buy it back, laying off all his skilled workers, alienating all the dealers, pissing off most TVR enthusiasts, defaulting on all outstanding orders without a word of explanation and turning the company into a laughing stock...
What other good ideas have I missed?
Size Nine Elm said:
unrepentant said:
Your difficulties with spelling are matched by your lack of understanding of the question. My point is that for all the vitriol directed at NS wasn't the real villain PW?
I'm actually quite surprised that, with your recent comments, you can't find a 'sweaty' to blame. Must try harder.
Actually now you come to mention it, wee Jockie McSporran the sweeper up has a lot to answer for.
Hi Unrep,
Let's review; TVR close to bankruptcy saved by a man prepared to pour his own hard earned dosh into the Company.
Makes beautiful cars everybody wants (quality control an admitted problem), makes money, makes TVR 'desirable', gets the best one make series in Europe running, builds own amazing V8, builds a LeMans car (which finishes) but over-reaches himself and the company with a further new developments - inc. Tuscan & S6 (which is by all accounts a problem from the initial design), then gets into financial difficulties after all the original hard earned success.
Stage two; TVR close to bankrupcy saved by a man prepared to pour his own (how earned?) dosh into the Company. Knows nothing about manufacturing particularly engineering/automotive. Slightly improves build quality, fails to address S6 issues, doesn't understand the market or UK TVR customers, doesn't listen to good advice, makes questionable appointments, loses good engineers and staff, realises things not going too well, withdraws from Blackpool, treats workforce questionably (I am being a bit legally careful here), make undelivered promises, carves up company, closes factory and plans to move offshore, goes into administration and then buys it back (out of pique or pride?)
Regardless of the deal made between the two men above, I think I know who's the real villain (?idiot) of the piece - don't you?
Let's review; TVR close to bankruptcy saved by a man prepared to pour his own hard earned dosh into the Company.
Makes beautiful cars everybody wants (quality control an admitted problem), makes money, makes TVR 'desirable', gets the best one make series in Europe running, builds own amazing V8, builds a LeMans car (which finishes) but over-reaches himself and the company with a further new developments - inc. Tuscan & S6 (which is by all accounts a problem from the initial design), then gets into financial difficulties after all the original hard earned success.
Stage two; TVR close to bankrupcy saved by a man prepared to pour his own (how earned?) dosh into the Company. Knows nothing about manufacturing particularly engineering/automotive. Slightly improves build quality, fails to address S6 issues, doesn't understand the market or UK TVR customers, doesn't listen to good advice, makes questionable appointments, loses good engineers and staff, realises things not going too well, withdraws from Blackpool, treats workforce questionably (I am being a bit legally careful here), make undelivered promises, carves up company, closes factory and plans to move offshore, goes into administration and then buys it back (out of pique or pride?)
Regardless of the deal made between the two men above, I think I know who's the real villain (?idiot) of the piece - don't you?
V8Cerbera said:
deadslow said:
spartacus said:
caracas
Isn't that the capital of Venezuela?
No idea, but the capital of Slovenia is Ljubljana
Oh! and by the way - The capital of Moldova is Chisinau... and the capital of Georgia is Tbilisi and the capital of....
I would have thought It was a pretty obvious typo judging by the context.
I meant carcase(As in a dead body) not caracas (As in the capital of Venezuela) You f*king infantile tw*ts!!!!!!
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