968 Clubsport chaps- your thoughts?
Discussion
I want to change my 3.2 Carrera for one of the above, want to do more track days and feel this is a more suitable car for them, also i just fancy a change!
has anybody got one or has anybody owned one and can give me some tips on what to look for (or is anybody selling one in the near future?) i am after an M030 spec car if possible in RHD and i am not bothered by colour (apart from white) in fact i would prefer something lairy like riviera or maritime blue if there are any out there...
any comments would be gratefully recieved guys, many thanks!
has anybody got one or has anybody owned one and can give me some tips on what to look for (or is anybody selling one in the near future?) i am after an M030 spec car if possible in RHD and i am not bothered by colour (apart from white) in fact i would prefer something lairy like riviera or maritime blue if there are any out there...
any comments would be gratefully recieved guys, many thanks!
As Daz has said, a lot of these cars have been bought by PHers recently, so search these forums for their thoughts and their purchase/ownership experiences to date. The main thing to wtach out for is cambelt renewal and camshaft renewal above 60k miles - it is a big bill to do the cams as Herman will testify, and that was preventative work not retrospective pistons-meeting-valves work. Belts are obviously cheaper to do, but well worth getting the cams done to if nileage is reasonably high. Other things I'd watch out for are PAS pump probs and water pump leaks. Other than that, a good car - and a great Porsche even at twice the money. However, I still feel they lack the ultimate hardcore attitude of the 964RS (here he goes again :yawn
, as they have more compliant suspension for better handling on the public road, PAS which takes a little out of the action at the front end (not a lot but still noticeable), less racecar gimmicks like thinner window glass, lighter panels or smaller screenwash reservoirs and ultimately a rather anodyne motor (they are quickish but the fourpot never sounds that amazing). Considering they are a third of the cost of a 964RS they probably give you 75-85% of the experience, but if you are a complete nutter you must remortgage the dog and try a 964RS before you depart this planet.
All IMHO as everyone knows I keep going on about 964RSs...
, as they have more compliant suspension for better handling on the public road, PAS which takes a little out of the action at the front end (not a lot but still noticeable), less racecar gimmicks like thinner window glass, lighter panels or smaller screenwash reservoirs and ultimately a rather anodyne motor (they are quickish but the fourpot never sounds that amazing). Considering they are a third of the cost of a 964RS they probably give you 75-85% of the experience, but if you are a complete nutter you must remortgage the dog and try a 964RS before you depart this planet. All IMHO as everyone knows I keep going on about 964RSs...
just a quick question and excuse my mechanical ignorance but why do the cams need replacing above 60,000m, its just that most of the cars i have seen for sale so far have done just over 60,000 or coming up to it so obviously i will have to factor this into the price, anybody know how much it is to get done?
It's not the cams that need replacing it's the possibility that the camchain tensioner is old and that the camchain has stretched. If it stretches too much then it can snap or round off the teeth on both your camshafts.
This is compounded by the fact that Porsche have never introduced a scheduled period at which this should be inspected
and initially few people knew of the weakness. Mine was replaced at 110,000 miles with no appreciable wear, but I do know of others that have had problems around the 80,000 mile mark or 10 years 
All good independants know about this and generally charge approx 250 GBP to replace the tensioner and chain. This is a small price to pay compared to new camshafts!!!!!
See pictures here:
http://boerger.golden-tech.com/images/cam_chain_tensioner_replacement.htm
This is compounded by the fact that Porsche have never introduced a scheduled period at which this should be inspected
and initially few people knew of the weakness. Mine was replaced at 110,000 miles with no appreciable wear, but I do know of others that have had problems around the 80,000 mile mark or 10 years All good independants know about this and generally charge approx 250 GBP to replace the tensioner and chain. This is a small price to pay compared to new camshafts!!!!!
See pictures here:
http://boerger.golden-tech.com/images/cam_chain_tensioner_replacement.htm
Great car for the money. Get one and go for speed yellow, maritime or riviera blue. Not the same car in other colours, IMHO. Put the CS graphics on as well, the louder the better in one of these. Steers like a kart and my one is quick enough now the work's been done. I'm still considering some 9M add ons though. You can never have enough power. 
However, get a very thorough inspection. Scottster and I went to see my car before buying it and it is a very good, accident free, hardly tracked (in Dom's and my mechanic's opinion) example. From the history, I knew the belts and chain would need doing straight away. No problems I thought so I negotiated the price down a bit to cover this. Imagine my surprise when I discovered the RRP of the cam chain tensioner from Porsche, over £700 !!!!
That is just the tensioner. It's different from a 944 tensioner because the car has Variocam. Nasty shock number 1.
Better still, when the cam cover was off, the cams themselves needed replacing as the teeth had worn and some were missing. They cost £500 a pop !!!
These are RRP's and our man did manage to get me a decent discount on the bits but it was still something I should have factored into the price I paid for the car. At least I know it's now a completely sorted example and good for another 50K miles before anything else like this needs doing.
Obviously the moral is, get an inspecion and get the mechanic to have a look at the cams themselves before buying.
However, get a very thorough inspection. Scottster and I went to see my car before buying it and it is a very good, accident free, hardly tracked (in Dom's and my mechanic's opinion) example. From the history, I knew the belts and chain would need doing straight away. No problems I thought so I negotiated the price down a bit to cover this. Imagine my surprise when I discovered the RRP of the cam chain tensioner from Porsche, over £700 !!!!
That is just the tensioner. It's different from a 944 tensioner because the car has Variocam. Nasty shock number 1. Better still, when the cam cover was off, the cams themselves needed replacing as the teeth had worn and some were missing. They cost £500 a pop !!!
These are RRP's and our man did manage to get me a decent discount on the bits but it was still something I should have factored into the price I paid for the car. At least I know it's now a completely sorted example and good for another 50K miles before anything else like this needs doing.
Obviously the moral is, get an inspecion and get the mechanic to have a look at the cams themselves before buying.
The problem with cams on all 16V 4 cyl Pork engines is due to cam chain stretch. Basically the poor single strand chain receives insufficient lubrication, and at high rpm the oil flings off and allows the chain elements to run dry, so causing premature wear of the rollers and shafts within the chain. As soon as the roller centre-distance increases the load on the chainwheel (cam) becomes uneven and allows the rollers to ride up the teeth and wear the faces. The ultimate failure is when a tooth is individually stressed beyond its limits and thus breaks off setting up a chain reaction (sic) and breaking off other teeth.
The moral of the story is to have a new chain fitted every 48,000 miles, without fail. One day I may look at making an oil bath in the head for the chain to run in, or maybe a duplex chain or gear conversion, but until that day we are all faced with big bills from our favourite manufacturer because someone there got it wrong (imho).
The moral of the story is to have a new chain fitted every 48,000 miles, without fail. One day I may look at making an oil bath in the head for the chain to run in, or maybe a duplex chain or gear conversion, but until that day we are all faced with big bills from our favourite manufacturer because someone there got it wrong (imho).
ninemeister said: ... but until that day we are all faced with big bills from our favourite manufacturer because someone there got it wrong (imho).
Too bloody right. They really should have coughed up on this one. There's nothing in the service schedule about the chain. Why didn't they learn from the 944 ?
Dear Infernored,
The 968CS is an excellent road/track car, I loved mine and recently replaced it with a LHD 964C2, which for me is a 'step up' the performance and handling ladder.
A 968CS is incredibly neutral, and a great car to learn the craft in, but it definately isn't as vocal or as rewarding as a 911 IMHO, YMMV! :-)
Try and get together with a PH'er with one at a track day and get them to let you drive a few laps, it's the only way to be sure, a road test just doesn't do justice to a Porsche, let alone a track biased machine like the CS.
Fox
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The 968CS is an excellent road/track car, I loved mine and recently replaced it with a LHD 964C2, which for me is a 'step up' the performance and handling ladder.
A 968CS is incredibly neutral, and a great car to learn the craft in, but it definately isn't as vocal or as rewarding as a 911 IMHO, YMMV! :-)
Try and get together with a PH'er with one at a track day and get them to let you drive a few laps, it's the only way to be sure, a road test just doesn't do justice to a Porsche, let alone a track biased machine like the CS.
Fox
---
neon_fox said:
... recently replaced it with a LHD 964C2, which for me is a 'step up' the performance and handling ladder.
Foxy,
I understand what you mean about being a step up in performance terms and I also understand what you say about the 911 being a more rewarding drive when you've mastered it but at the end of the day, the 968 CS will go round corners quicker than most (if not all) 911s won't it ? Doesn't that make it a better handling car ? You can't blame it for having perfect weight distribution.
I'll second or third or whatever it is all of the above. Fabulous cars and great value for money. Agree that 911 RS's are great too, but at least double the price. You pays your money.....
Just had my cam chain replaced at 73k and all was OK so I guess I was lucky. Worth pointing out to Infernored that if you want to go 'hardcore' on the handling a la 964RS look for a car with the optional M030 suspension package. Having said that, mine hasn't got it and still handles great on trackdays.
Just had my cam chain replaced at 73k and all was OK so I guess I was lucky. Worth pointing out to Infernored that if you want to go 'hardcore' on the handling a la 964RS look for a car with the optional M030 suspension package. Having said that, mine hasn't got it and still handles great on trackdays.
I understand what you mean about being a step up in performance terms and I also understand what you say about the 911 being a more rewarding drive when you've mastered it but at the end of the day, the 968 CS will go round corners quicker than most (if not all) 911s won't it ? Doesn't that make it a better handling car ? You can't blame it for having perfect weight distribution.
OK Hermann, I'll bite :-)
I think 'what goes round corners fastest' is a subjective judgement criteria for what you consider important in a car, for me it's all about how it feels going round the corner, not how fast.
I'm sure that the driver is a far bigger factor in how fast you go round corners than which particular model (of roughly similar tyre sizes) of Porker you drive.
As my 964 has the same wheels/tyre sizes as my 968CS had, I expect similar lateral G capabilites. What I do get is better aural pleasure, much better throttle response and better power/weight ratio.
YMMV, but the 964's differing weight distributions give a car that is more agile, but less 'chuckable' (if that makes sense). If only they had made the 968 with a flat-six!
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