P38 timing cover on a Griff

[dnb]

Just thinking that if I use one of the newer dizzyless timing covers, I can get a new oil pump, gaskets etc at quite a reasonable price. The main benefit to me is that I could use the cam sensor & a newer cam wheel for my ECU instead of the bodge sensor I made out of the dizzy...

So, does the newer P38 timing cover fit on a Griff, or does the oil filter get in the way of the chassis?
Also, does the standard Griff serp water pump fit this cover, or do I need a newer one of those too?
Are there any other things that get in my way?

Thanks!

[spend]

The sump is different; which is the biggest problem.

Not sure about cam clearance ~ think it may be ok from intermediate to Gems.
You know the orig Gems cam sprocket is a funny casting ~ not seen a duplex version so you may have to make your own trigger.

Dave

Edited by spend on Sunday 4th March 23:45

[dnb]

Sounds like more trouble than it's worth then. It looks like plan B then - modify the existing cover to take the hall sensor I have.

[spend]

The serp Intermediate cover has the casting for the sensor does'nt it? If so, cant you just bore out the sensor hole & drill tap the screw (if its not done already)

Dave

[dnb]

I think it might have the casting, but I won't know until I wash the thing. The engine has the castings for crossbolt main bearing caps, so I don't see why it should be any different...

Does anyone have a photo of the cam gear so I can see what the sensor actually reads?
Thanks.

[spend]

Purely plagurised....

GEMS 4.0 sprocket on left and Bosch 4.6 sprocket on right:



Dave

Just added a few other bits I had in my bookmarks that might assist you...

The sump/fc problem: as you can see the p38 FC has the front sump bolts & mating in diff positions (this is of p38 sump with non-Gems front cover BTW)


This is the common 'intermediate' cover used on all TVR serps I've seen:

The casting for the sensor is easily visible above the crank seal ~ I assume then you can remove the dizzy drive gear which makes plenty of room for trigger (cam phase) of your choice.

Edited by spend on Monday 5th March 02:10

[dnb]

Thanks! We are a pair of insomniacs, aren't we?

My casing does indeed look like the bottom picture. I will investigate it more closely tonight.

I'm wondering now about getting a single toothed trigger wheel made in place of the dizzy drive gear, but I haven't looked at the clearances yet. I'm not sure what trigger pattern the GEMS system wants looking at those pictures - it doesn't look like a singe cam sync pulse.

[spend]

Funny, I got called an insomniac twice last night! But I stayed in bed later than you

Thats the sagem and bosch setups, they both get accurate position from flywheel (some serp blocks have the casting for the crank sensor I have been told). They do look like phase wheels.. If you look closely there is a track (where the sensor is positioned) that is open for 180 and solid for 180 (excepting the small 'spokes') its easier to see on the Thor, but then you can see it on the Sagem (less obvious but clear). So you basically get 180 of signal then no signal for 90-little blip-90 no signal......

Dave

[rev-erend]

I was also told that there are not many camshaft types for the full serpentine cover (no dizzy hole) but for the intermediate cover - pictured above with dizzy hole - all cam designs are available..

[dnb]

I see the tracks now. I dare say the "little blips" will upset VEMS, so I plan too cut a disc with a single hole in it where I want the sync pulse and use that in place of the dizzy drive gear.

I was even in work on time today.

[spend]

It seems the only way Dave ~ surprisingly I've not seen duplex sprockets that have that signal anyway (maybe I have'nt looked hard enough).

YHM BTW

Dave

[dnb]

Will have a look at the mail when I get home. I haven't seen any duplex gears with trigger either, and at least if I make it myself I have choice in where I put the sync pulse.

[antonyj]

dnb, I intend using an intermediate cover when I eventually build my 4.6, as said above the cover has the provision for the cam sensor also.
I believe the intermediate using an old style sump too.
The later serp cover is alot slimmer so , the alt bracket and idler/steering pump config is different.

I would use an intermediate cover, and john eales does an altertenative bracket for the alternator which allows you to use a shorter belt and no pulley or power steering pump on the other side of the engine(unless of course you have PS)

One of the guys on here (is it graham) that races a tuscan has this bracket on and it makes for a much more compact front end.
A bit like the perserp front end, and of course no dizzy


Oh , when I was after an inter cover, I realised that the easiest way to ID them is the raised "pipes" in the casting on the front.
The inters are horizontal ,the later covers "pipes" are angled up.
Think the inter cover is ERR6814

Edited by antonyj on Monday 5th March 18:17

Edited by antonyj on Monday 5th March 18:51

[spend]

I assume you are talking about converting from pre-serp? dnb is already serpentine. Do note the serp water pump rotates the opposite way BTW

Sorry if this is irrelevant, but I couldnt understand most of your post.

Dave

[antonyj]

Its been along day Dave.....

Maybe I misunderstood dnb's question. I was just trying to pass on what I had found out this last few months.