Over-rated drives who shoudn't be in F1.

[loneranger]

All IMHO.
These lot should retire and make way for some proper talent.

G Fisichella ( Alonso exposed just how bad he is)
R Barrichello (fire has gone out)
R Shumacher (was never any good but was always very highly paid)
J Truli (Toyota have zero chance with these two lamers)
M Webber (Williams had a disaster of a season, I don't think it was all car)

Edited by loneranger on Tuesday 6th March 08:22

[stew-typeR]

loneranger said:

All IMHO.
These lot should retire and make way for some proper talent.

G Fisichella ( Alonso exposed just how bad he is)
R Barrichello (fire has gone out)
R Shumacher (was never any good but was always very highly paid)
J Truli (Toyota have zero chance with these two lamers)
M Webber (Williams had a disaster of a season, I don't think it was all car)

Edited by loneranger on Tuesday 6th March 08:22

fisi- has flashes of speed, nothing more.
rubens can be good if the car is to his liking.
ralf...erm...next
jarno- same as fisi, something about italians, can be mega quick, but not consistent
mark- last year the williams was shit, end of. this year might show his real potential.

[D-Angle]

Can't argue with any of the above. I would add Sato to that list - only still in F1 because he is Japanese and has lots of dense fans who think that's enough, so Honda have to placate them. Between Honda, Toyota and Aguri I doubt he'll be the last of his kind either.

[Gruffy]

Sato and the ironically named Speed for the same reason.

[Pulsatingstar]

Its hard to disagree, but its also hard to think of 6 or 7 people id rather see in F1.

And chances are when you find them and give them the shot only 1 or 2 will be any better than the current bunch.

[Gruffy]

In fairness, it does seem like a fairly good year for F1 talent. Kovalainen, Hamilton, Kubica and Davidson all look like they have great potential. Massa, Alonso, Raikkonen and Coulthard have all earned their place. The rest are over-rated and over-valued in my opinion.

[spb2]

Would like to see Bourdais in F1.

Sato is great, he only adds to the excitement. Give him his due.

[Martin Keene]

loneranger said:

All IMHO.
These lot should retire and make way for some proper talent.

G Fisichella ( Alonso exposed just how bad he is)
R Barrichello (fire has gone out)
R Shumacher (was never any good but was always very highly paid)
J Truli (Toyota have zero chance with these two lamers)
M Webber (Williams had a disaster of a season, I don't think it was all car)

Edited by loneranger on Tuesday 6th March 08:22

No arguments from me on that. With the exception of Webber, I'm not sure he is champion material yet, but I do believe he deserves his place.

Fisi is a pretencious wr. Always has been... Always will be... I can't believe he kept his job after being so completely destroyed by Alonso.

[SimonY]

Would agree with all of the above drivers, but I still can't see why people think Webber is any good. As far as I can remember his first race was good and since then he has been consistently average. And he's too tall. I would add Raikkonen to the list because he's only fast when everything is going his way, and has a well documented habit of breaking cars/being unlucky.

[muzzer79]

Martin Keene said:

loneranger said:

All IMHO.
These lot should retire and make way for some proper talent.

G Fisichella ( Alonso exposed just how bad he is)
R Barrichello (fire has gone out)
R Shumacher (was never any good but was always very highly paid)
J Truli (Toyota have zero chance with these two lamers)
M Webber (Williams had a disaster of a season, I don't think it was all car)

Edited by loneranger on Tuesday 6th March 08:22

No arguments from me on that. With the exception of Webber, I'm not sure he is champion material yet, but I do believe he deserves his place.

Fisi is a pretencious wr. Always has been... Always will be... I can't believe he kept his job after being so completely destroyed by Alonso.

IMO that's a historical thing with Benetton/Renault.

At the end of 1995 they lost Schumi to Ferrari so took Alesi and Berger from Ferrari for the 1996 season.
Flav has since said that taking 2 new drivers for one season was a big mistake and Benetton/Renault IIRC haven't done it since. With Alonso going, they had no choice but to keep Fisi.

He's still pants though.

[Frik]

SimonY said:

Would agree with all of the above drivers, but I still can't see why people think Webber is any good. As far as I can remember his first race was good and since then he has been consistently average. And he's too tall. I would add Raikkonen to the list because he's only fast when everything is going his way, and has a well documented habit of breaking cars/being unlucky.

He's a good driver but a crap team player.

[loneranger]

Actually I don't think Sato is over-rated.
In fact the opposite is true.
He is under-rated.
Everybody assumes that he is rubbish because he is Japanese yet he has a fantastic career record from before F1 and since being in F1 he has either been an inexperienced rookie or been driving a poor car.
He is a real trier and that is something a few of the lamers I listed could learn from.

[Gruffy]

loneranger said:

Everybody assumes that he is rubbish because he is Japanese...

I don't think that's a fair comment. I'd suggest that people assume he's rubbish because he is outperformed by his less than stellar teammates and demonstrates a Ralf-like quality to be involved in more than his fair share of incidents.

[Gruffy]

Here's something to consider...

In what other sport is there such a huge gap between the front runners (plural) and the guys running behind? There will always be the standout individual performers, the athletes that eclipse all others, but it's always struck me as odd that at the very pinnacle of a sport (which F1 aims to be) that many drivers can consistently outperform their teammates by such a sizeable margin.

Is it a genuine phenomena unique to F1 (or motorsport) or does it demonstrate that pace isn't necessarily THE determining factor in securing a drive?

[andy tims]

Gruffy said:

Here's something to consider...

In what other sport is there such a huge gap between the front runners (plural) and the guys running behind?

Moto GP - Except it's front runner (singular)

[Gruffy]

That kind of misses the point I was trying to raise. Every discipline has standout individuals. I'm interested to see if there are other instances of an entire class of performers operating above the front runners.

[10 Pence Short]

Having watched Sato in F3, he was spectacularly fast in comparison to pretty much everyone, though he was in a great car.

I wonder if his foray into F1 has been the first series in his career where he's had to try and compete in a dire car. To me it would explain why he ends up binning it so often in races, as he tries to over achieve in a crap car.

[spb2]

Gruffy said:

That kind of misses the point I was trying to raise. Every discipline has standout individuals. I'm interested to see if there are other instances of an entire class of performers operating above the front runners.

Gruffy

Does every sport not have simliar traits? 90's Premiership saw United take the honours consistently, and when they didn't win they were there or there abouts always with the same contenders. In fact the top 3/4 has been the same for years, almost the whole life of the league (premiership)

Tennis always seems to have a dominant force both mens and ladies. As has golf. Every sport has examples of the head of the field being far above the rest.

Edited by spb2 on Tuesday 6th March 16:03

[Gruffy]

I don't think I did a very good job of explaining my thoughts...

There have always been the individuals that exceed the rest of the field's good and great, the true legends of their discipline (Jordan, Pele, Armstrong and so on). You would expect those individuals to have a noticeable performance margin to their competitors, but these are individuals and you rarely see more than one or two in any particular generation.

In F1, the very pinnacle of motor racing, it's quite common for teammates in identical machinery to consistantly and significantly outpace each other. If they were truly the best 24 F1 drivers in the world you would expect the margins to be much tighter, allowing for one or two exceptional talents. Is this because the drivers aren't the 24 men best suited to the job or is it a genuine phenomenon peculiar to F1?

[homer3uk]

muzzer79 said:

Martin Keene said:

loneranger said:

All IMHO.
These lot should retire and make way for some proper talent.

G Fisichella ( Alonso exposed just how bad he is)
R Barrichello (fire has gone out)
R Shumacher (was never any good but was always very highly paid)
J Truli (Toyota have zero chance with these two lamers)
M Webber (Williams had a disaster of a season, I don't think it was all car)

Edited by loneranger on Tuesday 6th March 08:22

No arguments from me on that. With the exception of Webber, I'm not sure he is champion material yet, but I do believe he deserves his place.

Fisi is a pretencious wr. Always has been... Always will be... I can't believe he kept his job after being so completely destroyed by Alonso.

IMO that's a historical thing with Benetton/Renault.

At the end of 1995 they lost Schumi to Ferrari so took Alesi and Berger from Ferrari for the 1996 season.
Flav has since said that taking 2 new drivers for one season was a big mistake and Benetton/Renault IIRC haven't done it since. With Alonso going, they had no choice but to keep Fisi.

He's still pants though.

I agree, but! I Expect to see Fisi Replaced by the end of the season! Pos by a young Nelson Piquet jnr.
A new car and two new drivers from the start would be far too much for a team to cope with.