I don't care what happens to TVR
Discussion
All this speculation is irrelevant to me. Maybe TVR was seriously ill when PW handed it over but NS killed the company.
All I care about is my warranty being honoured. Other than that I don't care what TVR come out with or where they're made. I'm keeping mine and I'll never buy another one.
TVR was over the moment they closed the Bristol Avenue factory.
All I care about is my warranty being honoured. Other than that I don't care what TVR come out with or where they're made. I'm keeping mine and I'll never buy another one.
TVR was over the moment they closed the Bristol Avenue factory.
the pits said:
ATVR was over the moment they closed the Bristol Avenue factory.
Hear, hear. The minute they announced that, I knew TVR was gone. And I very much doubt it will ever rise again, unless someone with a shed-load of money and some decent management skills comes along. And so far, the prospects do not look good.
Its widely appreciated that TVR as we knew and grew up to love has finished in the guise that we romanced about.
Its like having had a Dad, who was great once but has had a sex change. He's still Dad and your memories are fond ones but it just aint the same any more.
I understand the passion, I even share it. But this is the real world. Things change, better for some, worse for others.
To be fair, I've gone past really being that bothered, myself. In a perverted way, I think what has happened makes the marque just that little more mystical.
I love the history of TVR and I love and adore my very own Blackpool piece of history that I cherish.
Life sucks at times for all. But come on - apart from the workers that have lost their jobs, is there anybody else with real enough reason to get so worked up about?
Move on.....
Its like having had a Dad, who was great once but has had a sex change. He's still Dad and your memories are fond ones but it just aint the same any more.
I understand the passion, I even share it. But this is the real world. Things change, better for some, worse for others.
To be fair, I've gone past really being that bothered, myself. In a perverted way, I think what has happened makes the marque just that little more mystical.
I love the history of TVR and I love and adore my very own Blackpool piece of history that I cherish.
Life sucks at times for all. But come on - apart from the workers that have lost their jobs, is there anybody else with real enough reason to get so worked up about?
Move on.....
To be honest I don't think closing Bristol Ave killed it. The place was run down and not really what one envisages as a modern and efficient facility. It they had moved it to a better facility then I think that would have been advantageous and progressive, even if ut was somewhere in the UK other than Blackpool. I'm sure it would have improved quality and efficiency. But moving it abroad killed it for me. A TVR built outside the UK has no appeal for me personally.
unrepentant said:
To be honest I don't think closing Bristol Ave killed it. The place was run down and not really what one envisages as a modern and efficient facility. It they had moved it to a better facility then I think that would have been advantageous and progressive, even if ut was somewhere in the UK other than Blackpool. I'm sure it would have improved quality and efficiency. But moving it abroad killed it for me. A TVR built outside the UK has no appeal for me personally.
Whatever the original reason was for TVR being in Blackpool disappeared a very long time ago. In a business sence it should have moved when Wheeler bought it to a more suitable location in the UK for that type of business. Somewhere where there was a suitable pool of labour to allow the business to expand and contract as market forces dictated, somewhere where transport costs could be minimised of parts coming in and products heading back out. Quite simply there is a blindingly obvious reason why the bulk of non Governement subsidized car manufacture is in the Midlands. The clue is in the title as Roy would say.
Blackpool has commercially been as wrong a place to build cars from the moment that TVR first changed hands.
As for the arguement over whether they should be built here or abroad, it is very emotive but, if the intention is to build a global brand then you cannot afford to be remotely emotional about the production location. If, on the other hand, you want to take a step back and produce a limited number of specialist wagons then it does make a strong difference.
As I've said before, TVR does not have the kudos of Morgan or the depth of heritage of someone like Caterham (ie the Lotus connection) and so the latter is not a commercially viable option. Some people do seem to think that TVR has this intensely rich and deep heritage, but it honestly isn't true. No one had really heard of them until the Griff came along and Clarkson et all started ranting about them, they were an obscure little company with no money and little ambition building pretty poor cars (that is not to say they weren't wonderful).
Therefore, for such a business to survive, overseas sales are absolutely essential and as such the general business model must reflect this.
If bringing an Italian firm in to add kudos so that it sells to the image concious in America or the Far East, then do it.
If having a bespoke English engine driving it get's potential clients excited (afterall we do built the best sporting engines still in this country) then do it.
If having the things bolted together in some obscure economic backwater achieves competitive costs, then do it.
If having the firm headquartered in the UK manages to get enough overseas clients to be able to say the car is British, then do it.
I would probably think twice about buying a future TVR if it were not built in England, but then if I am totally honest, I have almost certainly bought my last TVR. I never intended to buy another after the Griff but made the mistake of going to the TVR Centre one morning and seeing a T350 for sale. When this one is sold it will be replaced by something different. This is nothing to do with the company, it is just that over the years my wants and needs have evolved and ultimately, I suspect, they will move away from this brand. This is primarily as I have always had a cheap second car for fun and an expensive every day car, it is very likely that I will switch this around and go for a very cheap every day car and have something very mental next to it in the garage and TVRs, past, present, future won't fit that mould.
I agree with original post. It was dying the moment they released the Speed six engine. Wheeler handed it over mortally wounded and Smolenski ruthlessly murdered the workers and has ran off with the marque in name only. As I said in my letter in this months evo,I can't see me ever buying another one. The Typhoon thing is a joke thats not very funny.
It's a bit like remembering your first love, and the realisation that those days were a long time ago and you can never get them back.
It's a bit like remembering your first love, and the realisation that those days were a long time ago and you can never get them back.
Actually I don't think the S6 was the end of TVR. But trying to cut corners with sub standard internals was. There's an important difference. Peter Wheeler's decision to spend Griff and Chim profits on building his own engines was very ambitious but also very TVR. I've had two S6 engined cars and the engine is the heart and soul of the car and when working (I had no problems with mine) it's a brilliant engine. Sadly cheap internals has let the reputation down but the engine always gots rave reviews in the motoring press - brilliant and audacious work from a small company using the budget Porsche spend on a door handle.
The RV8 is the foundation on which TVR was built but with your eyes shut you wouldn't know whether you were in a griff or a Cobra replica. The S6 and AJP 8 were designed to be unlike any other engines and take TVRs in a new and bold race inspired direction. Sadly it wasn't to be. I think the V8 or nothing brigade never gave the S6 a chance and, disgracefully, were happy to see it fail. I hope they're happy now.
The RV8 is the foundation on which TVR was built but with your eyes shut you wouldn't know whether you were in a griff or a Cobra replica. The S6 and AJP 8 were designed to be unlike any other engines and take TVRs in a new and bold race inspired direction. Sadly it wasn't to be. I think the V8 or nothing brigade never gave the S6 a chance and, disgracefully, were happy to see it fail. I hope they're happy now.
Why dont you lot put this subject to bed it gets rather tedious after a while.
TVR are Dead, Gone, Finished as you have known. They may build another car one day but it will never be like the cars of today with all the safety issues that will be slapped on them.
So if you have never owned a modern TVR, I feel sorry for you.
If you own a modern TVR, think yourself a very lucky person to be in possession of an unrestricted proper balls out british sports car and stop whingeing and look after it.
TVR are Dead, Gone, Finished as you have known. They may build another car one day but it will never be like the cars of today with all the safety issues that will be slapped on them.
So if you have never owned a modern TVR, I feel sorry for you.
If you own a modern TVR, think yourself a very lucky person to be in possession of an unrestricted proper balls out british sports car and stop whingeing and look after it.
flasher said:
I agree with original post. It was dying the moment they released the Speed six engine. Wheeler handed it over mortally wounded and Smolenski ruthlessly murdered the workers and has ran off with the marque in name only. As I said in my letter in this months evo,I can't see me ever buying another one. The Typhoon thing is a joke thats not very funny.
It's a bit like remembering your first love, and the realisation that those days were a long time ago and you can never get them back.
It's a bit like remembering your first love, and the realisation that those days were a long time ago and you can never get them back.
I think I prefer this similee than the dad with a sex change one
Neil.
YI8TVR said:
Why dont you lot put this subject to bed it gets rather tedious after a while.
TVR are Dead, Gone, Finished as you have known. They may build another car one day but it will never be like the cars of today with all the safety issues that will be slapped on them.
So if you have never owned a modern TVR, I feel sorry for you.
If you own a modern TVR, think yourself a very lucky person to be in possession of an unrestricted proper balls out british sports car and stop whingeing and look after it.
TVR are Dead, Gone, Finished as you have known. They may build another car one day but it will never be like the cars of today with all the safety issues that will be slapped on them.
So if you have never owned a modern TVR, I feel sorry for you.
If you own a modern TVR, think yourself a very lucky person to be in possession of an unrestricted proper balls out british sports car and stop whingeing and look after it.
Great post.
unrepentant said:
But moving it abroad killed it for me. A TVR built outside the UK has no appeal for me personally.
I appreciate that it wouldn't be the "same" TVR, and the fact that these bargain brute sportscars were British was nice, but with their current "change", and nobody really knowing what will come out of the other end, if the end result was still a similar car, with huge performance and great looks for a lot less dosh that the big names, then I would still buy it.
If TVR don't produce this (and I don't think they will), and if I wanted to change my car, I'd look to see what other equivalent there is.
At the moment I can't think of any, and don't want to change my car.
the pits said:
Actually I don't think the S6 was the end of TVR. But trying to cut corners with sub standard internals was. There's an important difference. Peter Wheeler's decision to spend Griff and Chim profits on building his own engines was very ambitious but also very TVR. I've had two S6 engined cars and the engine is the heart and soul of the car and when working (I had no problems with mine) it's a brilliant engine. Sadly cheap internals has let the reputation down but the engine always gots rave reviews in the motoring press - brilliant and audacious work from a small company using the budget Porsche spend on a door handle.
The RV8 is the foundation on which TVR was built but with your eyes shut you wouldn't know whether you were in a griff or a Cobra replica. The S6 and AJP 8 were designed to be unlike any other engines and take TVRs in a new and bold race inspired direction. Sadly it wasn't to be. I think the V8 or nothing brigade never gave the S6 a chance and, disgracefully, were happy to see it fail. I hope they're happy now.
The RV8 is the foundation on which TVR was built but with your eyes shut you wouldn't know whether you were in a griff or a Cobra replica. The S6 and AJP 8 were designed to be unlike any other engines and take TVRs in a new and bold race inspired direction. Sadly it wasn't to be. I think the V8 or nothing brigade never gave the S6 a chance and, disgracefully, were happy to see it fail. I hope they're happy now.
Count yourself lucky then. I had two speed six engined cars and both went bang, the first one more than once, the latter T350 within 1500 miles of delivery. I even had a speed six cerb as a loan car that shook itself to bits!! My old regional TVRCC RO had an original S6 cerb and did enough engines to fill several skips! He ended up going back to a V8 chim after driving courtesy cars more than his own!
These aren't isolated cases either.
Call it dodgy internals, the decision to build it, poor build or whatever you like, in one way or another the speed six is the main reason TVR are dead. And now they are no longer British and have an owner who did the dirty on British workers I'm no longer interested.
Can I suggest that the reason many of us, me included, are tired of the meanderings that the TVR story is taking is not because of the actual business developments, but because of all of the opinionising and speculatification that exists on this forum. I think we've overdosed ourselves on recriminations and finger-pointing to the point of saturation. Ask the average motorist and they won't have a clue what's going on.
I will watch the progress of the TVR business with interest and wish it the very best. If it survives in any form, then great. If not, it's a shame, but my life won't change that much.
Pete
I will watch the progress of the TVR business with interest and wish it the very best. If it survives in any form, then great. If not, it's a shame, but my life won't change that much.
Pete
AlexRWD said:
S1X OK said:
speculatification
Is that a real word Pete? If so, I'm very disappointed I didn't know about it until now, going to have to try and find some opportunities to use it
Of course not, I built it myself from components found lying around on my desk. It's the illegitimate child of a speculum and a pontif.
Edited by S1X OK on Thursday 8th March 15:26
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