Crumbs - front pads

[red griff roger]

Invistigating a slight metallic click when braking I pulled out the front pads. These were fitted about 4k miles ago, Frodo semi comp (together with 4 pots and bigger discs from Tower View). The pads have plenty of wear left, but the surface is crumbling away - no other way to describe it. I can gouge chunks out with my thumbnail. The inboard pad is the worst, to the point that less than half of the pad is making contact with the disc. I haven't looked at the other side of the car yet (but I will!) And before anyone starts, yes I did bed them in as per what it said on the tin.

If anyone can tell me how to add a photo to this site (I can't find a way, but haven't spent that long trying), I can show pics.

Question is - has anyone else come across this and what causes it (I don't wnat to have this again). Quick search on the forum hasn't shown up anything. I thought I recalled an alarm a few months back, but that was cracked discs.

roger

[bluebottle]

I had a set of BD pads do this to me. In my case it was due to knackered callipers causing brake binding and after a trackday they had been well and truely cooked, to the point of catchin fire
Have yours got too hot, any signs of blueing of the discs?

[red griff roger]

No sign of bluing, discs are nice and shiny (except for the inside, which now has a thin film of rust where the pad hasn't made any contact. But have gone on a lot of tracks. I think I did 6 track days since the new discs/pads were fitted, and do the warm up/down laps. That's why I got the big discs - I like to slow (just a bit) before going round Shell Oils. And the old discs (standard) were knackerd. The pads are semi-comp (if I recall) or road/race. The pads have Ferodo racing DS 2500 on the back.

[GarryM]

Yep, same here. I've been through several sets of DS2500 and in every case (I think) they have required replacement due to the problems you describe rather than actually wearing out. I thought about sending some back to Ferodo as I thought it must be a fault but after discussion with Ferodo and my garage/dealer we concluded it was a result of track days (getting very hot) and being left in a garage for days at a time with, on occasions, wet discs/pads. My last set only lasted about 2500 miles so it's a pretty expensive business - they cost more than the discs on mine. Thing is they are the best pads I've tried so I'm sticking with them for the time being.
Regards.
Garry

[steve-v8s]

Just fitted Ferodo 2500 pads front and rear along with new callipers at the front. I had no idea what pads were fitted as they were on the car when I got it. I did the work to try to sort out an imbalance of the point at which the fronts locked up. Front left always locked long before right. When I got the old pads out (which had a lot of wear left) could just read Ferodo but not see which compound.

Was alarmed to find however that the inner front left pad came out in two pieces. The pad was not fixed to the steel plate. The front contact surfaces were either glazed or crumbling. They could only have been making contact on the glazed areas, which may explain why the new ones give a lot more bite. The rears looked fine, not crumbling and not overly glazed.

Not yet done the full bedding in as recommended in the paperwork but they do initially feel better. Having seen the state of the old ones however I would probably consider another brand next time. I decided on 2500 as the Ferodo web site specifically recommends them for Sprints and Hill climbs. Perhaps they are not ideally suited to circuit applications or fast road use where they may get a lot hotter for a lot longer.

[barreti]

This thread is a noddy guide (no offence meant ) to posting pics on PH
Clicky

[red griff roger]

Cheers Barreti - none taken. My VPN connection blocks this site (must be some nice shots of bodywork?), so I wlll log on later and upload.

In the meantime, I have asked around, and was recommended EBC Yellow Stuff pads. Anyone tried these? I quote the blurb below:

"Although a full race material and capable of high temperature use with very good wear life, this new formulation sets a new trend in race type brake pad compounds. The “bite” from cold is superb which is uncommon with race materials (normally requiring warm-up) and makes this a pad which can be safely used on the highway as well as on the race track. This new formulation was used by numerous championship race and rally drivers in 2004 and is truly a milestone in brake pad material development."

[bigdods]

I have EBC Reds on the Chim, with drilled and grooved Black diamond disks. No problems to report, they seem to be very hard wearing and never had any fade or prob lems with them breaking down or crumbling. You do need to get them nice and warm for the best braking effect (although they are ok from cold just not stunning). I've never tracked them so cant comment on their heat soak longevity bit from a lot of fast road use they seem very good.

[barreti]

Excuse me for askin a bit of a numpty question, but whats meant by getting pads warm? does normal road driving do this or do you have to lean on the brakes a bit to get heat into them and then work them to keep heat in?

[red griff roger]

Not numpty. For normal pads (e.g. road) this isn't an issue. They work from the start (or else the UK road system would look like a breaker's yard!). For race pads, they are horrible till they are hot. You can often hear a metallic squeal as the cars warm up. Then they work very well. Race set up probably includes big vented discs and ports to flow air past. (I even saw a Mondeo at Silverstone where the lads in it had rigged up a system to squirt water on the disc under braking. Not too sure this is a good idea?) The point is that road pads would cook in no time under race conditions, and can burn (see above). If you use road pads hard - go like stink through Milton Keynes and see for yourself - you may find fade after the nth roundabout. Can also be due to fluid boiling (use Dot 5.1 for preference) or hoses bugling (use braided hoses). Best of all, don't cook them. For every day use you should be fine. If you track a lot, and drive to Tesco's too, a semi competiton pad is probably best. Until they crumble that is.

[red griff roger]

Hey Barreti - this works! Disappointed in the Tiny site thoough.

Picture of inboard disc - not a lot of contact area

And crummy pads


Anyway - saga continues. EBC have sold out of Yellow stuff and can't get more for two months! Will try Ferodo again.

[barreti]

So as a normal (well, ish) road user I don't need to bother about yellow/red/green stuff pads then?
Just get whatever is out there and I'll be OK.
Only if I want to track it do I need to bother about DOT5.1 / braided hoses / grooved (not drilled, heard they are bad) disks or a bigger brake upgrade?

Thats a sod, I've already got DOT5.1 and braided hoses in the 'new bits waiting to go on the car' drawer

Edited to apologies for going a bit OT on this thread. But I am interested in this, honest.

Edited by barreti on Friday 9th March 20:14

[crackedfinger]

red griff roger said:

Hey Barreti - this works! Disappointed in the Tiny site thoough.

Picture of inboard disc - not a lot of contact area

And crummy pads


Anyway - saga continues. EBC have sold out of Yellow stuff and can't get more for two months! Will try Ferodo again.

I am running the same willwood brake conversion - I ditched the rubbish Willwood pads for Mintex M1144's, have had 3 track days so far and over 5K on the road - they are excellent. I have not taken them off the car for inspection yet as they feel fine. Tim from ACT sourced the correct fitting pads for those calipers for me.

[Pasco]

barreti said:

So as a normal (well, ish) road user I don't need to bother about yellow/red/green stuff pads then?
Just get whatever is out there and I'll be OK.
Only if I want to track it do I need to bother about DOT5.1 / braided hoses / grooved (not drilled, heard they are bad) disks or a bigger brake upgrade?

Thats a sod, I've already got DOT5.1 and braided hoses in the 'new bits waiting to go on the car' drawer

Edited to apologies for going a bit OT on this thread. But I am interested in this, honest.

Edited by barreti on Friday 9th March 20:14

So fit them Ian

Iam going too, can only help imho

[shpub]

Use 5.1 It is superior and about the same price as Dot 4.0 and the brake fluid should be changed periodically anyway.

I'll be honest but those pads look cooked to me.

[red griff roger]

Thanks Steve - I think you are right. I am obviously heavy on the brakes! I will try out a bit of air ducting to give them a bit mor of a blow. Has anyone tried this?

[red griff roger]

barreti said:

Thats a sod, I've already got DOT5.1 and braided hoses in the 'new bits waiting to go on the car' drawer

Edited to apologies for going a bit OT on this thread. But I am interested in this, honest.

Edited by barreti on Friday 9th March 20:14

Get it on the track - you will have the most fun you can imagine, and it lasts more than 30 seconds. There are slots left at Cadwell (hope it is drier this year).

[bluebottle]

Steve, could this be cuased by continued use after the pads have glazed?
My first pads did this, and since then i have taken the pads out after trackday sessions and removed the glazing (by rubbing them on a concrete floor) and not had this happen since