Discussion
Yep - M400. In general, a moderately well pedelled M400 will beat a well piloted GT3RS in the dry; in the cold and wet it's exactly the opposite. So if you want to beat yer mates only go out in the dry! Victory will be much more convincing with certain mods from those nice people at Roush 
A certain Mr Chillidog on here has long since dismissd those RSs and is now hunting down the Radicals 
A certain Mr Chillidog on here has long since dismissd those RSs and is now hunting down the Radicals M400 is the weapon of choice.
Bear in mind that this is a hand built car without a £billions development programme. To that end, running costs will be higher due to components needing replacing more often (brakes and suspension joints are the two large 'consumables'), and if you are a hooligan then tyres rapidly dissapear.
Nobles also need treating with a bit of respect, so good warmup and cool down laps are essential, as is giving the whole car a break every 20 mins or so.
However, various mods have been designed by Plans and Roush to overcome some of the smaller issues, and with the various cooling upgrades (tunnel, intercooler etc.) you can end up with a car that can be constantly driven.
A good few Nobles have now been raced and so are proven in the track world, just remember that there is a big list price differential between a Noble and GT3 and hence you'd need to budget slighly more than a Porsche for maintenance.
However, you will leave them all for dead
J
Bear in mind that this is a hand built car without a £billions development programme. To that end, running costs will be higher due to components needing replacing more often (brakes and suspension joints are the two large 'consumables'), and if you are a hooligan then tyres rapidly dissapear.
Nobles also need treating with a bit of respect, so good warmup and cool down laps are essential, as is giving the whole car a break every 20 mins or so.
However, various mods have been designed by Plans and Roush to overcome some of the smaller issues, and with the various cooling upgrades (tunnel, intercooler etc.) you can end up with a car that can be constantly driven.
A good few Nobles have now been raced and so are proven in the track world, just remember that there is a big list price differential between a Noble and GT3 and hence you'd need to budget slighly more than a Porsche for maintenance.
However, you will leave them all for dead
J
mgbond said:
I'm suprised that no has suggested a 3R and then a visit to roush for the 15k upgrade to over 500bhp (may work out the same kind of cash as a M400).
But at the end of the day it depends on his budget.
Bondy
Bondy - that's actually last on the list of things that will get you round a race track quickly.
1.Pilot (some innate skill + tuition)
2.Well sorted suspension (with inc camber)and corner weighting
3.Tyres and pressures
4.Brakes (grooved discs and Pagid RS19s)
5 Cooling mods - I/C, oil cooling, transmission and turbo cooling - to allow making use of what power you have , for longer
6.More BHP
All IMHO, of course. But most folk just go straight for No.6.
If you get the lot - then so much the better
,. I havn't mentioned exhaust upgrade which I think is a no-brainer for anyone wanting to keep their Noble. This mod will also give significantly more power (and reliability) over the standard system.
I looked at going the M400 route once, but if you look at Robs list you'll see you'll swap out all the bits that are different between the 3R and M400 anyway.
The only advantages of an M400 over a 3R, if you're going mod crazy that is, are:-
1) M400's have a better turning circle than most 3R's (the very last were the same).
2) Oil cooler is already on the M400 and putting one on a 3R is a PITA.
3) Er, that's all I can think of! (apart from seats but I prefer the 3R ones, but each to their own).
The uprated engine, suspension etc will all go in the bin anyway if you're going totally track focused.
The only advantages of an M400 over a 3R, if you're going mod crazy that is, are:-
1) M400's have a better turning circle than most 3R's (the very last were the same).
2) Oil cooler is already on the M400 and putting one on a 3R is a PITA.
3) Er, that's all I can think of! (apart from seats but I prefer the 3R ones, but each to their own).
The uprated engine, suspension etc will all go in the bin anyway if you're going totally track focused.
robp said:
mgbond said:
I'm suprised that no has suggested a 3R and then a visit to roush for the 15k upgrade to over 500bhp (may work out the same kind of cash as a M400).
But at the end of the day it depends on his budget.
Bondy
Bondy - that's actually last on the list of things that will get you round a race track quickly.
1.Pilot (some innate skill + tuition)
2.Well sorted suspension (with inc camber)and corner weighting
3.Tyres and pressures
4.Brakes (grooved discs and Pagid RS19s)
5 Cooling mods - I/C, oil cooling, transmission and turbo cooling - to allow making use of what power you have , for longer
6.More BHP
All IMHO, of course. But most folk just go straight for No.6.
If you get the lot - then so much the better
,. I havn't mentioned exhaust upgrade which I think is a no-brainer for anyone wanting to keep their Noble. This mod will also give significantly more power (and reliability) over the standard system.
I agree, but but it sounded by like he was already into his track driving (obviously a new car requires getting used to)
Also I though apart from power the M400 has different suspension (another 3R upgrade) but all your other points are upgrades to both cars aren't they.
My point was you can get a 3R upto a well sorted M400's power and pace for less money than buying a M400. I only make this statement from reading people's posts on here.
Bondy
robp said:
mgbond said:
I'm suprised that no has suggested a 3R and then a visit to roush for the 15k upgrade to over 500bhp (may work out the same kind of cash as a M400).
But at the end of the day it depends on his budget.
Bondy
Bondy - that's actually last on the list of things that will get you round a race track quickly.
1.Pilot (some innate skill + tuition)
2.Well sorted suspension (with inc camber)and corner weighting
3.Tyres and pressures
4.Brakes (grooved discs and Pagid RS19s)
5 Cooling mods - I/C, oil cooling, transmission and turbo cooling - to allow making use of what power you have , for longer
6.More BHP
All IMHO, of course. But most folk just go straight for No.6.
If you get the lot - then so much the better
,. I havn't mentioned exhaust upgrade which I think is a no-brainer for anyone wanting to keep their Noble. This mod will also give significantly more power (and reliability) over the standard system.
I think you forgot to mention...
"All of which can be obtained at your local Roush dealership where the prices are small and the smiles are big. Please state RobP upon ordering and you'll recieve a free tyre pressure check, and lots of commision for me."
Have you moved into a different profession since we last spoke yesterday? Although I could imagine the fringe benefits you could get working at Roush wouldn't be bad. Back on topic, I would agree the M400 is much more of a track toy. Personally I really didn't get on with a M12 GTO 3R on track, the suspension was too soft for my liking. And with 500+ BHP on an M12 with standard suspension you are going to need some VERY good brakes to slow it up enough for the corners, or brake very early. However I guess ThatPhilBrettGuy knows exactly what it's like to drive on track, so I could be entirely wrong.
ThatPhilBrettGuy said:
I looked at going the M400 route once, but if you look at Robs list you'll see you'll swap out all the bits that are different between the 3R and M400 anyway.
The only advantages of an M400 over a 3R, if you're going mod crazy that is, are:-
1) M400's have a better turning circle than most 3R's (the very last were the same).
2) Oil cooler is already on the M400 and putting one on a 3R is a PITA.
3) Er, that's all I can think of! (apart from seats but I prefer the 3R ones, but each to their own).
The uprated engine, suspension etc will all go in the bin anyway if you're going totally track focused.
The only advantages of an M400 over a 3R, if you're going mod crazy that is, are:-
1) M400's have a better turning circle than most 3R's (the very last were the same).
2) Oil cooler is already on the M400 and putting one on a 3R is a PITA.
3) Er, that's all I can think of! (apart from seats but I prefer the 3R ones, but each to their own).
The uprated engine, suspension etc will all go in the bin anyway if you're going totally track focused.
Phils absolutely right - if you go the mega upgrade route as per my list, then it dosn't matter a toss which derivative you start with. Seats (c'mon Phil you can't really prefer the 3R seats!) , gear linkage (important) and oil temp/pressure guage + turning circle are the only things that would be different (and turbos - but most change these with the engine upgrade)
My original comment on M400 being the best model for track day use was based on standard M400 vs standard 3 or 3R.
DaveCavrs4 said:
Was thinking of getting a csl again for tracdk use only
when the thought of a Noble came to mind
Iam not up on the models at all which is best for track ?? Iam up against GT3 RS as all my friends track them
your help would be great
Dave Cav ##
Leeds
when the thought of a Noble came to mind
Iam not up on the models at all which is best for track ?? Iam up against GT3 RS as all my friends track them
your help would be great
Dave Cav ##
Leeds
I live in Leeds
If you want a run out, pm me.
A 3R with a trackday sump plus assorted mods is the most cost effective route to take.
The rest of the mods you can do when you fancy them or can afford them. RobP has the list in a sensible order of implementation.
Don't forget the oil cooler modifications - Plans/Roush can advice on the options for this.
--
Richard
The rest of the mods you can do when you fancy them or can afford them. RobP has the list in a sensible order of implementation.
Don't forget the oil cooler modifications - Plans/Roush can advice on the options for this.
--
Richard
What's mine like on the track? It's fine. Yes softer than an M400 but as I use mine on the road a lot, it's much nicer day to day, and I didn't want to change that. Oh, how I laugh at the M400 with their Corsa's in the wet . I'd be interesting against a GT3 in the wet on the track though....
A standard M400 would probably be faster than mine around a dry track, but that's semi slicks for you. I've never had any issue with the standard brakes to be honest, but I don't go round and round all day, so they don't get too cooked. To be honest the tyres are the limit. I can turn the rears into jelly in 3 laps of most circuits if I'm trying (read being an idiot).
But back on track as it were. I agree with Chilli. The most cost effective route for a track-day monster is 3 or 3R and get your chequebook out.
. I'd be interesting against a GT3 in the wet on the track though.... A standard M400 would probably be faster than mine around a dry track, but that's semi slicks for you. I've never had any issue with the standard brakes to be honest, but I don't go round and round all day, so they don't get too cooked. To be honest the tyres are the limit. I can turn the rears into jelly in 3 laps of most circuits if I'm trying (read being an idiot).
But back on track as it were. I agree with Chilli. The most cost effective route for a track-day monster is 3 or 3R and get your chequebook out.
Ash M400 said:
DaveCavrs4 said:
Was thinking of getting a csl again for tracdk use only
when the thought of a Noble came to mind
Iam not up on the models at all which is best for track ?? Iam up against GT3 RS as all my friends track them
your help would be great
Dave Cav ##
Leeds
when the thought of a Noble came to mind
Iam not up on the models at all which is best for track ?? Iam up against GT3 RS as all my friends track them
your help would be great
Dave Cav ##
Leeds
I live in Leeds
If you want a run out, pm me.
were abouts mate would be good to have a look Iam in Scarcroft but office is in Bradford (for my sins)
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