exhausts (sorry if youre all bored of the subject!)
Discussion
i know this has likely been the subject of a 1000 threads but i want (need!) to hear my V8 and the std exhausts are much too quiet. I know monkfish do a remap/wortec exhaust 'package' but at £1800 this is stretching the budget to say the least....
Does anyone have experience of fitting a cat-back system and not remapping? Im in the motor-trade (boooo) so have access to a workshop and some helpful technicians to fit the pipes but i am guessing specialist equipment req'd for re-map?
Does anyone have experience of fitting a cat-back system and not remapping? Im in the motor-trade (boooo) so have access to a workshop and some helpful technicians to fit the pipes but i am guessing specialist equipment req'd for re-map?
I was going to do exactly that a first but then did get the remap after a lot of advice from people such as monkfish. It really was worth it for the throttle response alone (you can improve it without the exhaust but makes sense to do both at same time)
Along with the wortec offering there aer others, you could get a powerflow for a lot less but all they basically do is make a system to suit your car but with little other knowledge. When I used them before the question asked was "how do you want it to sound" and they did create the sound I was after (old supra), the welding was great, the tubing was narrower at points than the original tough - and the stainless steel had lots of corrosion after a month.
Miltek is an alternate too and I think in the end it cost me less than the equiv wortec setup but don't quote me, both were pretty much the same price.
Of the two options, if I couldnt jusify the price of both, second time around I would go for the remap first.
Along with the wortec offering there aer others, you could get a powerflow for a lot less but all they basically do is make a system to suit your car but with little other knowledge. When I used them before the question asked was "how do you want it to sound" and they did create the sound I was after (old supra), the welding was great, the tubing was narrower at points than the original tough - and the stainless steel had lots of corrosion after a month.
Miltek is an alternate too and I think in the end it cost me less than the equiv wortec setup but don't quote me, both were pretty much the same price.
Of the two options, if I couldnt jusify the price of both, second time around I would go for the remap first.
my experience with the catback and remap is do them both together. I have a Powerflow jobbie and had to get it remapped as it was running really rich after the exhaust and felt all, how can you put it, soggy, flat etc. Paid about £400 for the exhaust on a CV8, twin exit is about £500-£600 I think. Has a lifetime warranty but only valid it you take the car back annually for a checkup.
delmeekc said:
my experience with the catback and remap is do them both together. I have a Powerflow jobbie and had to get it remapped as it was running really rich after the exhaust and felt all, how can you put it, soggy, flat etc. Paid about £400 for the exhaust on a CV8, twin exit is about £500-£600 I think. Has a lifetime warranty but only valid it you take the car back annually for a checkup.
Odd, generally increases in efficiency would end up with the car running lean. Not rich.
Although my opinions of local PF dealers have been well voiced on local forums. Of course, there are a lot of happy customers too. ( Im not a customer, Ive just seen and removed enough of their work )
delmeekc said:
LSV did the dyno after the exhaust and that was from the dyno prior to the remap, I don't know. It did not feel on the lean side and boged down on WOT. I had nothing done to the intake though so that may have been why.
how do you mean? They did mine and it was with a kn panel filter mod but I doubt that makes any real difference other than filter life
certainly a lot crisper, they did a before run, added the stuff the an after run and the car is certainly a lot crisper. May be worth you doing a pcm reset
delmeekc said:
you lost me, I am talking about the car and how it felt with just the exhaust. Not after a remap.
Based on the orignal question I have never found (on a car or bike) that if the exhaust has been changed that the vehicle fuels properly.
Based on the orignal question I have never found (on a car or bike) that if the exhaust has been changed that the vehicle fuels properly.
ah sorry didnt get what you had said. Roger at Monkfish did say to me that without the remap the car can feel a little wooly
If you are technically inclined you can do your own tuning with a tune tool. They only cost a few hundred quid.
The cars are configured to run closed loop from the factory so around town and cruise they will run bang on for fuel except if you have an air leak in which case it will look to the o2 sensors as if you are lean and they will dump more fuel making a mess and giving an all round bad result.
Under throttle as stevie says they are more likely to be lean after modifications than rich, because any good mod will increase the volumetric efficiency and allow the engine to ingest more air. Unless the PCM knows about this it will run lean as it will assume the engine is stock and not put in as much fuel as it should.
Hence the comment that to do exhaust without a tune isnt ideal. Other than the fact that the stock setup is rich and you will be leaning it out more towards the idea. As you can see its all very loose and the ideal thing is to get it tuned. This can be costly if you tune it after each mod unless you do it yourself. There are excellent tools around for the job.
Thats why most people get a whole lot of stuff done in one go and the tune at the same time. It makes sense.
The cars are configured to run closed loop from the factory so around town and cruise they will run bang on for fuel except if you have an air leak in which case it will look to the o2 sensors as if you are lean and they will dump more fuel making a mess and giving an all round bad result.
Under throttle as stevie says they are more likely to be lean after modifications than rich, because any good mod will increase the volumetric efficiency and allow the engine to ingest more air. Unless the PCM knows about this it will run lean as it will assume the engine is stock and not put in as much fuel as it should.
Hence the comment that to do exhaust without a tune isnt ideal. Other than the fact that the stock setup is rich and you will be leaning it out more towards the idea. As you can see its all very loose and the ideal thing is to get it tuned. This can be costly if you tune it after each mod unless you do it yourself. There are excellent tools around for the job.
Thats why most people get a whole lot of stuff done in one go and the tune at the same time. It makes sense.
all very helpful thanks, one question outstanding - can ANY tuning company set them up or does it require a specialist 'vauxhall' tool?
Im thinking of having the wortec cat-back system (and maybe a rip-shift tho that wont require remapping!) so if i fitted it myself can i then go to the local rolling road/dyno/tuning people and get someone to tune it correctly?
Im thinking of having the wortec cat-back system (and maybe a rip-shift tho that wont require remapping!) so if i fitted it myself can i then go to the local rolling road/dyno/tuning people and get someone to tune it correctly?
Mattmeister said:
all very helpful thanks, one question outstanding - can ANY tuning company set them up or does it require a specialist 'vauxhall' tool?
Im thinking of having the wortec cat-back system (and maybe a rip-shift tho that wont require remapping!) so if i fitted it myself can i then go to the local rolling road/dyno/tuning people and get someone to tune it correctly?
Im thinking of having the wortec cat-back system (and maybe a rip-shift tho that wont require remapping!) so if i fitted it myself can i then go to the local rolling road/dyno/tuning people and get someone to tune it correctly?
madness in that going somewhere non monaro specialised will still cost as much
Save money until you can afford to have the work done by the experienced
enthusiasts. They have the knowledge, gained through developement of the
products and by asking owners what they really want! ie quality, reliability,
power, handling, sound, looks, value for money etc.
Honestly, it will save you money in the long run. Have the mods done right
the first time and enjoy.
A decent re-map is a no brainer as far as improving the driveability of the car.
A good exhaust system lets the car sound like it should and breath better.
I am sure you will appreciate the improvement more after having both done properly
at the same time. Plus you get a warranty that covers the complete work.
enthusiasts. They have the knowledge, gained through developement of the
products and by asking owners what they really want! ie quality, reliability,
power, handling, sound, looks, value for money etc.
Honestly, it will save you money in the long run. Have the mods done right
the first time and enjoy.
A decent re-map is a no brainer as far as improving the driveability of the car.
A good exhaust system lets the car sound like it should and breath better.
I am sure you will appreciate the improvement more after having both done properly
at the same time. Plus you get a warranty that covers the complete work.
To tune it you will need something like efilive or hpt.
Its best to get someone who knows the engines to tune them. The basics are straight forward, Air, fuel, spark. But knowing what makes good power in the LSx engines its best handled by those who always deal with them. For naturally aspirated 13:1 is the go under heavy load etc.
If you are looking at getting someone else to tune it check out the sponsors of the forum. They all have experience. If you are going down the self help route, check out the products listed above.
Its best to get someone who knows the engines to tune them. The basics are straight forward, Air, fuel, spark. But knowing what makes good power in the LSx engines its best handled by those who always deal with them. For naturally aspirated 13:1 is the go under heavy load etc.
If you are looking at getting someone else to tune it check out the sponsors of the forum. They all have experience. If you are going down the self help route, check out the products listed above.
and if you should fancy having a go yourself - ringram here can not only supply the necessary software and interface but also a fair bit of good technical advice on using the kits. there are a couple of "free" tunes available for cv8 owners that basically replicate the settings used by holden/hsv on a couple of their tweaked engines. can be used to squeeze a bit more out the engine without having to fiddle with very much. loads of technical help and advice from the efilive forums as well.
i had my car setup by LSV but also bought the kit from richard which allows me to monitor and tweak settings if and when I decide to. word of caution though and as far as I know this is still the case, sure they'll correct me if I'm wrong - if you go to a Wortec dealer and have the engine mapped then they lock the software which will prevent you doing any modifying on your own. the argument being its to protect their investment in developing their base tune. This was one of the major factors that influenced my decision to use LSV for my exhaust and remap
i had my car setup by LSV but also bought the kit from richard which allows me to monitor and tweak settings if and when I decide to. word of caution though and as far as I know this is still the case, sure they'll correct me if I'm wrong - if you go to a Wortec dealer and have the engine mapped then they lock the software which will prevent you doing any modifying on your own. the argument being its to protect their investment in developing their base tune. This was one of the major factors that influenced my decision to use LSV for my exhaust and remap
FWIW I dont think LS2 tunes are locked. hpt doesnt support locking LS2 yet AFAIK.
As mentioned it depends where you go as to whether the LS1 tunes get locked. IMO if its your car you should have access to your PCM. Otherwise its a bit like being locked out of your own kitchen. But each to their own.
As mentioned it depends where you go as to whether the LS1 tunes get locked. IMO if its your car you should have access to your PCM. Otherwise its a bit like being locked out of your own kitchen. But each to their own.
So we spend time and money producing a tune to work with OUR products and you come along and copy it into your car for free................sound a bit off to me?
If the tune is a custom tune for a customer the tune is NOT locked as they have paid for a bespoke tune.
We have recently had "Superchips" try and look at our tunes......should we just send them a file OR should we make them invest in producing their own tunes?
Also if a customer wants to change their tune themself we will load in the origional file for them and if they want the old one back later we will re load it for free.....
If the tune is a custom tune for a customer the tune is NOT locked as they have paid for a bespoke tune.
We have recently had "Superchips" try and look at our tunes......should we just send them a file OR should we make them invest in producing their own tunes?
Also if a customer wants to change their tune themself we will load in the origional file for them and if they want the old one back later we will re load it for free.....
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