500 Bhp by Roush
Discussion
OK, 497, but what’s 3 between friends.
Well, this is the first weekend I have had with dry roads and I have had the opportunity to put the full 497 down.
So, what is it like compared to the standard 425?
Unbelievable!
It is not so much the 0-60 that impresses, although, I think this has improved. 0-60 and 0-100 is just a blur. It is hard to keep up with the gear changes. I am sure with practice this will improve. I constantly found myself hitting the rev limiter, with all the pops and bangs that go with it. This is in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th. After 4th it is time to back off, I am sure I can hit the rev limiter in 5th.
The power is on tap, in any gear at any speed. The thing that impresses the most is at speeds where the M400 would begin to run out of puff, it is like a train, it does not stop.
The easy way to put this I suppose is, you all know what the 0-60 and 0-100 is like, IT IS LIKE STARTING AGAIN! From 100 upwards. Nothing can keep up, and I mean nothing. It is like a Playstation game, only in reverse when you look in your mirror. One second the car is behind you, the mirror is full, the next it is a tiny spec. And these are serious machines I am leaving behind. Carrera 4 S and above.
The chassis handles the additional power with no issues, but beware, if you have this mod, cold tyres in the dry are almost the same as tyres in the wet. The back end can be tricky, but the LSD sorts it out, if your keep your foot in, as long as the tyres are hot.
I have had an additional upgrade that the others have not, this is the gearbox, thanks to the Broad. I had it take to the Gearboxman, after asking Graham Broad for advice, he said, whilst the engine is out you may as well have this done. He was right.
What they have done is taken the gearbox apart and sent the cogs to be shot peened. Do a search on “shot peening” on google or go to www.gearboxman.co.uk. Basically, it strengthens the gearbox by 30%, more importantly, it has much less friction, more horses to the wheels. Ask Trevor what the difference is on the rolling road, it is significant and I am sure he will be along soon to confirm.
The cooling makes a large difference. This is achieved by piping cold air from the front, via the tunnel, to the front turbo. Heat soak has almost gone, I will let you know what it is like on a hot sunny day, however, the handbrake no longer gets hot, ever, that is a big improvement.
All in all I would say that the car is now how it should have been made on day one. All the niggles have gone, no chocolate exhaust bracket, cooling on the front turbo has taken most of the heat soak away. Performance is blistering. It is no longer a motorbike bater, it is a motorbike beater.
Do I think it has 200Mph in her? No. There are not enough revs and 6th is not long enough to get you there.
Would I sell?
Yes, for over 150k, cause nothing out there comes anyway near the performance now and it would take that kind of money to at least match the performance.
Was it worth the money?
YES.
Well, this is the first weekend I have had with dry roads and I have had the opportunity to put the full 497 down.
So, what is it like compared to the standard 425?
Unbelievable!
It is not so much the 0-60 that impresses, although, I think this has improved. 0-60 and 0-100 is just a blur. It is hard to keep up with the gear changes. I am sure with practice this will improve. I constantly found myself hitting the rev limiter, with all the pops and bangs that go with it. This is in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th. After 4th it is time to back off, I am sure I can hit the rev limiter in 5th.
The power is on tap, in any gear at any speed. The thing that impresses the most is at speeds where the M400 would begin to run out of puff, it is like a train, it does not stop.
The easy way to put this I suppose is, you all know what the 0-60 and 0-100 is like, IT IS LIKE STARTING AGAIN! From 100 upwards. Nothing can keep up, and I mean nothing. It is like a Playstation game, only in reverse when you look in your mirror. One second the car is behind you, the mirror is full, the next it is a tiny spec. And these are serious machines I am leaving behind. Carrera 4 S and above.
The chassis handles the additional power with no issues, but beware, if you have this mod, cold tyres in the dry are almost the same as tyres in the wet. The back end can be tricky, but the LSD sorts it out, if your keep your foot in, as long as the tyres are hot.
I have had an additional upgrade that the others have not, this is the gearbox, thanks to the Broad. I had it take to the Gearboxman, after asking Graham Broad for advice, he said, whilst the engine is out you may as well have this done. He was right.
What they have done is taken the gearbox apart and sent the cogs to be shot peened. Do a search on “shot peening” on google or go to www.gearboxman.co.uk. Basically, it strengthens the gearbox by 30%, more importantly, it has much less friction, more horses to the wheels. Ask Trevor what the difference is on the rolling road, it is significant and I am sure he will be along soon to confirm.
The cooling makes a large difference. This is achieved by piping cold air from the front, via the tunnel, to the front turbo. Heat soak has almost gone, I will let you know what it is like on a hot sunny day, however, the handbrake no longer gets hot, ever, that is a big improvement.
All in all I would say that the car is now how it should have been made on day one. All the niggles have gone, no chocolate exhaust bracket, cooling on the front turbo has taken most of the heat soak away. Performance is blistering. It is no longer a motorbike bater, it is a motorbike beater.
Do I think it has 200Mph in her? No. There are not enough revs and 6th is not long enough to get you there.
Would I sell?
Yes, for over 150k, cause nothing out there comes anyway near the performance now and it would take that kind of money to at least match the performance.
Was it worth the money?
YES.
ahaughton said:
Good write up. If you dont mind me asking - what's the cost, time to modify and reliability?
Yup I'm interested in cost / time involved.
Obviously the reliability factor will only be found in time.let us know after a few thousand miles.
Sound like a cracking drive though.
good write up Ash! Sounds like a blinder 
F.C. said:
ahaughton said:
Good write up. If you dont mind me asking - what's the cost, time to modify and reliability?
Yup I'm interested in cost / time involved.
Obviously the reliability factor will only be found in time.let us know after a few thousand miles.
Sound like a cracking drive though.
2.5k done, but mostly in the wet/damp.
Ash, if you could get lots of numbers I could tell you how your 100-150 (or any other incremement) time could compare to whatever you like, M5, Macca F1 etc by using
www.cartestsoftware.com/cartest2000/index.html
Could work out theoretical top whack if the diff ratio could be changed too (would need the drag coeff for that though also).
Did post a topic before here as just about every interesting car exists in its database bar Noble. Maybe wasn't clear enough before, its a performance simulation program, not a game.
www.cartestsoftware.com/cartest2000/index.html
Could work out theoretical top whack if the diff ratio could be changed too (would need the drag coeff for that though also).
Did post a topic before here as just about every interesting car exists in its database bar Noble. Maybe wasn't clear enough before, its a performance simulation program, not a game.
RichardD said:
Ash, if you could get lots of numbers I could tell you how your 100-150 (or any other incremement) time could compare to whatever you like, M5, Macca F1 etc by using
www.cartestsoftware.com/cartest2000/index.html
Could work out theoretical top whack if the diff ratio could be changed too (would need the drag coeff for that though also).
Did post a topic before here as just about every interesting car exists in its database bar Noble. Maybe wasn't clear enough before, its a performance simulation program, not a game.
www.cartestsoftware.com/cartest2000/index.html
Could work out theoretical top whack if the diff ratio could be changed too (would need the drag coeff for that though also).
Did post a topic before here as just about every interesting car exists in its database bar Noble. Maybe wasn't clear enough before, its a performance simulation program, not a game.
Maybe we could get Yellowshed to fill in the numbers.
TREVOR
Adrian's done about 7K and I've done about 3K. Nothing to report apart from :-
etc etc.
I've not changed my rev limit from standard, and mine hits the rev limiter in 6th....which is 180mph (laser trap at VMAX and GPS).
Adrian and I have got T25RS turbo's which spool even quicker than the standard M400 T28's.
I can't add much more to Ash's great review. The car just pulls and pulls and pulls now, where the standard cars just run out of puff around 6000rpm.
Just contact Roush or Plans about the costs. Worth it? Oh yes.
etc etc.
I've not changed my rev limit from standard, and mine hits the rev limiter in 6th....which is 180mph (laser trap at VMAX and GPS).
Adrian and I have got T25RS turbo's which spool even quicker than the standard M400 T28's.
I can't add much more to Ash's great review. The car just pulls and pulls and pulls now, where the standard cars just run out of puff around 6000rpm.
Just contact Roush or Plans about the costs. Worth it? Oh yes.
Ash M400 said:
The cooling makes a large difference. This is achieved by piping cold air from the front, via the tunnel, to the front turbo. Heat soak has almost gone, I will let you know what it is like on a hot sunny day, however, the handbrake no longer gets hot, ever, that is a big improvement.
Congratulations Ash, it sounds fantastic!
Just a some questions. Have you kept the standard HVAC(for what its worth!) with the tunnel mod? I thought it had to go.
Have you added a front mount oil cooler or another in the other side pod?
Do you think it might too quick for the road now!? How are you going to keep your licence?
Cheers
Steve
RichardD said:
Closer to Enzo below 100mph, and just a bit quicker than Carrera GT to 150mph 
In the real world myself and Adrian kept with a Carrera GT up to 135mph, then he slowly went away. I guess if I'd had stickier tyres or Adrian hadn't slightly fluffed a gear change we'd have done him to that speed. Oh, and Adrian had me as a passenger so had a weight disadvantage too 
ThatPhilBrettGuy said:
RichardD said:
Closer to Enzo below 100mph, and just a bit quicker than Carrera GT to 150mph
In the real world myself and Adrian kept with a Carrera GT up to 135mph, then he slowly went away. I guess if I'd had stickier tyres or Adrian hadn't slightly fluffed a gear change we'd have done him to that speed. Oh, and Adrian had me as a passenger so had a weight disadvantage too Sounds like the figures stack up then.
Ash M400 said:
ThatPhilBrettGuy said:
RichardD said:
Closer to Enzo below 100mph, and just a bit quicker than Carrera GT to 150mph
In the real world myself and Adrian kept with a Carrera GT up to 135mph, then he slowly went away. I guess if I'd had stickier tyres or Adrian hadn't slightly fluffed a gear change we'd have done him to that speed. Oh, and Adrian had me as a passenger so had a weight disadvantage too Sounds like the figures stack up then.
Will get into more detail later, there will be a point from which heavier and more powerful cars have an advantage (even a 2 ton mega Merc, but it will be a very high number!).
Only got the headline numbers in currently, will get the dyno graph in later, which will be useful for the in gear acceleration times.
Can create models for M12-3R, M400 and M460 (what I'm calling this one
) - then compare numbers again! Oh, Cartest does have a driver weight option, so I could change that to see how much a passenger blunts acceleration
Would any of the gang like to confirm these stats as its giving result of 63mph in first @ 7200 rpm, that correct ?
www.autocarmagazine.com/CarReviews/RoadTestsData/Noble-M12-3R/204574/
RichardD said:
Ash M400 said:
ThatPhilBrettGuy said:
RichardD said:
Closer to Enzo below 100mph, and just a bit quicker than Carrera GT to 150mph
In the real world myself and Adrian kept with a Carrera GT up to 135mph, then he slowly went away. I guess if I'd had stickier tyres or Adrian hadn't slightly fluffed a gear change we'd have done him to that speed. Oh, and Adrian had me as a passenger so had a weight disadvantage too Sounds like the figures stack up then.
Will get into more detail later, there will be a point from which heavier and more powerful cars have an advantage (even a 2 ton mega Merc, but it will be a very high number!).
Only got the headline numbers in currently, will get the dyno graph in later, which will be useful for the in gear acceleration times.
Can create models for M12-3R, M400 and M460 (what I'm calling this one
) - then compare numbers again! Oh, Cartest does have a driver weight option, so I could change that to see how much a passenger blunts acceleration
Would any of the gang like to confirm these stats as its giving result of 63mph in first @ 7200 rpm, that correct ?
www.autocarmagazine.com/CarReviews/RoadTestsData/Noble-M12-3R/204574/
I do not think 63 in 1st is correct. More like 52 to 55 in 1st.
I am sure someone will be along to correct me.
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