lbs of R12 in 280 a/c ?
Discussion
Help,
I have the two 280i manuals that were produced for the American market and the Bible, but the A/C is sort of ignored. It's presence is acknowledged but that's about it.
Anyone have any info: no of lbs R12, or pressures.
Thanks
Jeff
Ps any succesful converts to 134.
I converted another old car from R12 to 134 and have regreted it since. So I intend to keep this R12 despite the cost!
I have the two 280i manuals that were produced for the American market and the Bible, but the A/C is sort of ignored. It's presence is acknowledged but that's about it.
Anyone have any info: no of lbs R12, or pressures.
Thanks
Jeff
Ps any succesful converts to 134.
I converted another old car from R12 to 134 and have regreted it since. So I intend to keep this R12 despite the cost!
Greg,
I'm in the US, R12 is still available if you know somebody, not illegal, just expensive. ($50+ per lb)
I converted my old 911 to 134 from R12, it's not very good. On a car that is designed for 134 the condenser is larger. The condenser on a Porsche is not all that big to start with. Long hoses etc etc.
One alternative is Freeze 12 but it contains Propane and a Mech buddy said he wouldn't advise it!
R22 (used in house ACs) is cheap but cannot be used, I don't know the reason though.
So I will suffer the cost and go for R12 but can't find how many lbs I'll need.
Jeff
I'm in the US, R12 is still available if you know somebody, not illegal, just expensive. ($50+ per lb)
I converted my old 911 to 134 from R12, it's not very good. On a car that is designed for 134 the condenser is larger. The condenser on a Porsche is not all that big to start with. Long hoses etc etc.
One alternative is Freeze 12 but it contains Propane and a Mech buddy said he wouldn't advise it!
R22 (used in house ACs) is cheap but cannot be used, I don't know the reason though.
So I will suffer the cost and go for R12 but can't find how many lbs I'll need.
Jeff
hi
Did not know u were in the US hows it going,
most systems take about 1-2 pounds.I run an air conditioning company. I we get a customer who wants a recharge but the vehicle is old & has no gas weight it usually a waste of time ringing the dealer. heres what we do.
When the system is charge with Oxygen free nitrogen and leak test.vac out to 40 microns. When u add the gas charge up with vapour until youre low side is about 20 psi and your high side is about 150psi at about 15 degrees ambient celcius. put a air thermometer probe on the air out let in the cabin and it should be about 12- 14 degrees celcius.
ps you will have to conversion to farenheight as we dont use sorry.
regards
Greg
Did not know u were in the US hows it going,
most systems take about 1-2 pounds.I run an air conditioning company. I we get a customer who wants a recharge but the vehicle is old & has no gas weight it usually a waste of time ringing the dealer. heres what we do.
When the system is charge with Oxygen free nitrogen and leak test.vac out to 40 microns. When u add the gas charge up with vapour until youre low side is about 20 psi and your high side is about 150psi at about 15 degrees ambient celcius. put a air thermometer probe on the air out let in the cabin and it should be about 12- 14 degrees celcius.
ps you will have to conversion to farenheight as we dont use sorry.
regards
Greg
Greg,
I'm actually a misplaced Brit in New Jersey.
Thanks for this excellent info.
I was getting ready for replies like "wimp, just drop the top and drive"
Even in New Jersey it can get pretty hot and sticky in the Summer, AC is ness. for the humidity as much as the heat.
What is the drop in replacement for R12 in the UK?
Do you have an opinion on Freeze 12, or is this a "Trade name" like "Biro" and not sold in UK.
Thanks again.
Jeff
I'm actually a misplaced Brit in New Jersey.
Thanks for this excellent info.
I was getting ready for replies like "wimp, just drop the top and drive"
Even in New Jersey it can get pretty hot and sticky in the Summer, AC is ness. for the humidity as much as the heat.
What is the drop in replacement for R12 in the UK?
Do you have an opinion on Freeze 12, or is this a "Trade name" like "Biro" and not sold in UK.
Thanks again.
Jeff
Have you sourced some R12 as it was banned some years ago, the Montreal Protocol, global warming etc. NEVER NEVER put R134a into a system which has held R12, R134a has a smaller molecular constuction than R12 & therfore will find its way through joints, pipewalls etc, seals are made of a different material, lubricating oil is different also. 'Drop-in' refrigerants are available, use them instead, as a ball park figure, any car a/c system will take about 1kg plus or minus. You will need to evacuate the system prior to recharging the system at the very least. Hope this is of some help as this is my 1st
reply!
Regards Snowy (White)
reply!
Regards Snowy (White)
hi jeff
there are several drop in replacements for R12 we use but these are only intermediate. An actual conversion to R134a is the long term solution.R12 has the best enthalpy variation there is unfortunaltely it sticks a big hole in the ozone.I gassed up a delorean the other day on a repalcement for 12 the guy was well impressed he thought a 134 conversion was ness.
Anyway let me know how u get on.
there are several drop in replacements for R12 we use but these are only intermediate. An actual conversion to R134a is the long term solution.R12 has the best enthalpy variation there is unfortunaltely it sticks a big hole in the ozone.I gassed up a delorean the other day on a repalcement for 12 the guy was well impressed he thought a 134 conversion was ness.
Anyway let me know how u get on.
Allen,
On the first car I converted to 134, new hoses, dryer correct oil etc etc. New hoses were essential in a P car because for some reason the original hoses are made with small perferations that open up if the pressure gets to high.
134 would find those straight away!
I don't think the US signs a lot of those international agreements, I can't be sure re this particular one, but R12, to my knowlege is legal here.
Greg,
The R12 i'm getting is recovered and recycled. It's not still being produced and sold over the counter.
You have to be licensed to recover it and use it.
The Wedge would actually be a better candidate for 134 than the 911 because it has a dedicated fan on the condenser and is a smaller space to cool.
I can assure you if I pay for the R12 there's no way I will let it escape into the atmosphere (that is ilegal) not at these prices.
Jeff
On the first car I converted to 134, new hoses, dryer correct oil etc etc. New hoses were essential in a P car because for some reason the original hoses are made with small perferations that open up if the pressure gets to high.
134 would find those straight away!
I don't think the US signs a lot of those international agreements, I can't be sure re this particular one, but R12, to my knowlege is legal here.
Greg,
The R12 i'm getting is recovered and recycled. It's not still being produced and sold over the counter.
You have to be licensed to recover it and use it.
The Wedge would actually be a better candidate for 134 than the 911 because it has a dedicated fan on the condenser and is a smaller space to cool.
I can assure you if I pay for the R12 there's no way I will let it escape into the atmosphere (that is ilegal) not at these prices.
Jeff
Jeff, If you think NJ is bad, try Houston in the summer, I can only drive at night.
Yes, our r12 is recycled and legal but getting in ever shorter supply and thus ever more expensive. One problem is that if your system has any leaks - even slow ones - it's illegal to recharge the system until the leaks are fixed. And an almost 20 year old system will have leaks and/or require lots of parts and labor... which means you might as well consider converting the under-hood parts and hoses to a 134 system.
But based on what I've read, (mostly that the a/c barely works when it's working) is it worth trying to upgrade the original system? I am (somewhat seriously) thinking of swapping the entire a/c and heating system for a package (street rod) unit from Vintage Air or such.
The thought of taking the dash apart is putting me off more than the cost. Grady
Yes, our r12 is recycled and legal but getting in ever shorter supply and thus ever more expensive. One problem is that if your system has any leaks - even slow ones - it's illegal to recharge the system until the leaks are fixed. And an almost 20 year old system will have leaks and/or require lots of parts and labor... which means you might as well consider converting the under-hood parts and hoses to a 134 system.
But based on what I've read, (mostly that the a/c barely works when it's working) is it worth trying to upgrade the original system? I am (somewhat seriously) thinking of swapping the entire a/c and heating system for a package (street rod) unit from Vintage Air or such.
The thought of taking the dash apart is putting me off more than the cost. Grady
Hi Grady,
I've been to Houston, it's what I call a "three T-shirts a day place" Hot.
Some of the Texans on another site, Atlantans too, have got into underbody condensers. They say it works really well, Underbody condensors are $350 +, plus extra hoses, for a 911 that gets expensive but most of them have kept the cost down by installing the hoses themselves as that's very labor intensive.
Not much space for anything underbody on a wedge.
I'll just give it my best shot and see how good I can get it.
Jeff
I've been to Houston, it's what I call a "three T-shirts a day place" Hot.
Some of the Texans on another site, Atlantans too, have got into underbody condensers. They say it works really well, Underbody condensors are $350 +, plus extra hoses, for a 911 that gets expensive but most of them have kept the cost down by installing the hoses themselves as that's very labor intensive.
Not much space for anything underbody on a wedge.
I'll just give it my best shot and see how good I can get it.
Jeff
A few years back I fitted a/c to a show winning TR7 I owned, being in transport refrigeration, the job was fairly straight forward, took a coulple of days though, recharged with R49 & lasted 4 years without requiring a top up. No additional work required with R49, although I did change the oil in the York compressor, out of kindness more than anything.We very rarely re-use refrigerants, particularly if they are 'old', one never knows what is in them, contaminents, air etc. Recover certainly (the law requires it), but use a virgin product.
Just thought I'd add my 2p's worth (or 2cents). I work for one of the Major OE suppliers of a/c systems worldwide, but I don't profess to be an expert. In Europe around 1990 we worked on a lot of conversion kits from R12 to R134a and usually it meant new hoses (a must!) with new o-rings, different lube oil, new receiver-drier and that was it. R12 does have better Entropy (Greg ??) and the critical point is at a lower pressure on the P Vs Enthalpy graph therefore tended to be a better medium. Other advances in other areas have improved the performance with R134a but the Clean-Air beurocrats are now banning that! CO2 is the next medium - at amazing pressures!
I actually rejected a TVR (Chim) I was going to buy because it had an R12 system and I wasn't happy with it's operation in that you could not get conditioned air with anything but full cool setting. I've converted a couple of XJS and a Range Rover recently just because R12 is so difficult (i.e impossible/expensive) to get. Just hoses/o-rings and oil. This is your best route.
Good luck.
I actually rejected a TVR (Chim) I was going to buy because it had an R12 system and I wasn't happy with it's operation in that you could not get conditioned air with anything but full cool setting. I've converted a couple of XJS and a Range Rover recently just because R12 is so difficult (i.e impossible/expensive) to get. Just hoses/o-rings and oil. This is your best route.
Good luck.
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