Bye Bye Bugatti
Discussion
Los Angeles said:
VW's Bugatti began life as a bogus marque having nothing whatsoever to do with its esteemed and illustrious namesake,
Let me just say something about that. I remember watching the Bugatti EB (stap me I've forgotten the nomenclature right now EB110 is it?) at le Mans a few years back. I was mightily impressed by their efforts. It didn't look like a typical low budget lash-up that spends most of the race in the pits like the British seem to specialise in - it was neither fake nor fraud. It was a four cam, four turbo and four wheel drive genuien and honest effort at the race. I remember how straight forward the car looked, no wild arches and wings, no pink string and sealing wax. i remember watching it come out of the slow Arnage corner, and on each lap it hustled out of that corner with its 4x4 traction up the arses of the bigger and more powerful cars of the leading category. The car didn't finish, it did have some trouble in the night I believe, then one of its drivers crashed it. But I was bloody impressed.
At the same race were a pair of Lotus Esprits, a semi works effort (IIRC) in conjunction with Hugh Chamberlain, whom I've come to regard as a bit of a plonker. These were very much of the big wings, arches and stuff for show, and were dog slow. I remember actually watching one of their drivers braking for the first chicane, 'cept he'd brake, then get back on the throttle and then brake afgain etc. Hopeless. At one point one of the Loti lost its front 'bonnet'. The team actually came on to Radio Le Mans, said the thing has flown off the car somewhere, and if anyone finds it can they bring it back 'cos they haven't got anymore. Honestly! Whats more, someone did find it, did get it back to the pits, and I saw the team duct taping the thing back on.
So I don't know anything about the early ressurection of Bugatti, but they semed a darn sight more honest about their intentions than a great deal many others, and they could wipe the floor with Lotus at Le Mans in my opinion.
Tomas Bscher. (Is that spelt right? Probably not). He is like a few of the bosses of German car companies: a downright enthusiast. I have seen him race at le Mans a few times, the modern (bloody fast) version, not just the classic. (Mind you, that can be hairy, and Ulrich Bez, another kraut boss, races his Aston Martins there. Nothing like putting your money where your mouth is, is there? Where are the British bosses?)
Anyway, Bscher races a tad too hard for my tastes, and the year that Toyota finally looked like they had a chance of winning the 24 hours, I reckon Bscher (in a black BMW) ran their lead car off the road at one of the chicanes causing it to suffer a puncture in the dying stages of the race, thus allowing the sister BMW to win. But at least Bscher is prepared to get his hands dirty and get stuck in, and he must live, eat sleep and breathe motors. When he hasn't got his bankers hat on and making loadsa money. He must be quite a guy.
I reckon its outrageous to criticse VW. So they've had a hiccup, in what, 60 years of long, sustained growth? They came from nowhere, from literally the very rubble of the nightmare scenario of the immediate aftermath of WW2 in Germany (greatly aided by the wonderful Major Ivan Hearst of course.) They can't have shed anything like the number of workers that other companies have done over the years, and they certainly have never treated their workers, NOR their customers, in the shoddy and underhand way that British firms have always done.
I think the Veyron is fantastic. A folly maybe, but what a wonderful and glorious folly. It wasn't designed from a clean sheet of paper no, that is the easy way of course. And lets not forget that the fantastic McLaren F1 did not see its production run out either.
VW will survive, and so will Herr Bscher, and no doubt the workers will get their jobs back eventually. Meantime the world is left with a car that enthusiasts will talk about forever.
Not the worst saga ever to occur.
Edited by heebeegeetee on Tuesday 13th March 17:58
heebeegeetee said:
Los Angeles said:
VW's Bugatti began life as a bogus marque having nothing whatsoever to do with its esteemed and illustrious namesake,
Let me just say something about that. I remember watching the Bugatti EB (stap me I've forgotten the nomenclature right now EB110 is it?) at le Mans a few years back. I was mightily impressed by their efforts. So I don't know anything about the early ressurection of Bugatti, but they semed a darn sight more honest about their intentions than a great deal many others, and they could wipe the floor with Lotus at Le Mans in my opinion.
Edited by heebeegeetee on Tuesday 13th March 17:58
VW were nothing to do with EB110.
It was a great concept and a huge shame it did not succeed.
Ah ok, no I wasn't referring to the compensation.
Didn't IG Metall recommend the reductions in benefits as a way to sustain employment in Germany? Otherwise the production of the "Jeep" and parts would go to Portugal or other low-cost countries? This despite the mixed success (!) of ERA?
This is simply business basics isn't it? Although having said that I'm not sure business basics would agree with the concept of running at such a loss per unit!
Phil
Didn't IG Metall recommend the reductions in benefits as a way to sustain employment in Germany? Otherwise the production of the "Jeep" and parts would go to Portugal or other low-cost countries? This despite the mixed success (!) of ERA?
This is simply business basics isn't it? Although having said that I'm not sure business basics would agree with the concept of running at such a loss per unit!
Phil
I can resist no longer.
I find Los Angeles’s post ignorant in the extreme, so very wide of any rational mark, I really do question what it’s doing on this board at all. How can any auto enthusiast come on here and give out such bigoted baloney (almost) defeats me.
I don’t question anyone’s right to opinion and to air any critique but this thread is responding to a view which is total ignorant nonsense, complete claptrap. Should any readers misinterpret LA’s post as anything that could remotely be considered as balanced or authoritive, I think it’s so far out as to be offensive. It’s utter rubbish from a complete air head IMHO. Do your employers know of this bollox you give out; one wonders if it’s his job on the line, what sort perspective can sustain such crippled negativity?
What really scares me is that he maybe about to respond.
Oh, wait a minute. It’s a set up isn’t it? What a fool I’ve been. He’s trying his skills at comedic stuff isn’t he? Yep, not succeeded there either for me. Complete tripe.
I find Los Angeles’s post ignorant in the extreme, so very wide of any rational mark, I really do question what it’s doing on this board at all. How can any auto enthusiast come on here and give out such bigoted baloney (almost) defeats me.
I don’t question anyone’s right to opinion and to air any critique but this thread is responding to a view which is total ignorant nonsense, complete claptrap. Should any readers misinterpret LA’s post as anything that could remotely be considered as balanced or authoritive, I think it’s so far out as to be offensive. It’s utter rubbish from a complete air head IMHO. Do your employers know of this bollox you give out; one wonders if it’s his job on the line, what sort perspective can sustain such crippled negativity?
What really scares me is that he maybe about to respond.
Oh, wait a minute. It’s a set up isn’t it? What a fool I’ve been. He’s trying his skills at comedic stuff isn’t he? Yep, not succeeded there either for me. Complete tripe.
I have to ask how can you be a car lover and not even admire the veyron for its capabilities, the Mclaren F1 doesnt really float my boat but i admire it immensly and would easily spend a good hour ogling one if i had the chance. So how can you just dismiss the veyron and claim to be a petrol head it doesnt make sense??
ph123 said:
I can resist no longer.
I find Los Angeles’s post ignorant in the extreme, so very wide of any rational mark, I really do question what it’s doing on this board at all. How can any auto enthusiast come on here and give out such bigoted baloney (almost) defeats me.
I don’t question anyone’s right to opinion and to air any critique but this thread is responding to a view which is total ignorant nonsense, complete claptrap. Should any readers misinterpret LA’s post as anything that could remotely be considered as balanced or authoritive, I think it’s so far out as to be offensive. It’s utter rubbish from a complete air head IMHO. Do your employers know of this bollox you give out; one wonders if it’s his job on the line, what sort perspective can sustain such crippled negativity?
What really scares me is that he maybe about to respond.
Oh, wait a minute. It’s a set up isn’t it? What a fool I’ve been. He’s trying his skills at comedic stuff isn’t he? Yep, not succeeded there either for me. Complete tripe.
I find Los Angeles’s post ignorant in the extreme, so very wide of any rational mark, I really do question what it’s doing on this board at all. How can any auto enthusiast come on here and give out such bigoted baloney (almost) defeats me.
I don’t question anyone’s right to opinion and to air any critique but this thread is responding to a view which is total ignorant nonsense, complete claptrap. Should any readers misinterpret LA’s post as anything that could remotely be considered as balanced or authoritive, I think it’s so far out as to be offensive. It’s utter rubbish from a complete air head IMHO. Do your employers know of this bollox you give out; one wonders if it’s his job on the line, what sort perspective can sustain such crippled negativity?
What really scares me is that he maybe about to respond.
Oh, wait a minute. It’s a set up isn’t it? What a fool I’ve been. He’s trying his skills at comedic stuff isn’t he? Yep, not succeeded there either for me. Complete tripe.
Couldnt you be just a little more descriptive in your points? I think we got the gist that you didnt agree with LA, but were there any specific parts to which you have opposite views?
For example, I have no idea about how Bugatti is/was run, but I understand and agree with the part about it being wrong to sacrifice employee security for the sake of producing a no expense spared blatantly loss making hypercar. I do however like the car.
kryten22uk said:
For example, I have no idea about how Bugatti is/was run, but I understand and agree with the part about it being wrong to sacrifice employee security for the sake of producing a no expense spared blatantly loss making hypercar.
It was never obvious that the VW Beetle would be a success. A quirky, bug shaped, rear engined air cooled device made by the country whose antics had led to the devestation of most of the civilised world. Indeed the motor manufacturer Lord Rootes personally told Major Ivan Hearst that he was a fool if he thought he could make a success of the car.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Rootes, anyone remember them?
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