Scooter skills (or lack thereof...)
Discussion
I have been commuting on my scooter (Vespa GT125) for almost a year now and have had two incidents where I have ended putting the scooter down on it's side (ironically not on the same one).
1) Car park at B&Q (don't laugh) where I was filtering on the outside a queue of cars to get to the motorcycle bays near the store entrance when a car parked on the right started reversing out.
2) 3 lanes at the lights which are red - inside lane is free (2 others full of traffic). I am going up the free lane when I spot the nose of a car starting to stick out (it is turning right) across the 2 lanes of stationary traffic. Admittedly, it was wet and greasy at the time but I ended up wiping out in front of said car that was turning.
On both occasions I get the impression I could have avoided the situation by greater anticipation / driving around it / reducing speed in a controlled manner / or the other car would have spotted me and stopped. However, I am overreacting and grabbing the front brake which causes the front of the bike to skid and me to hit the deck. Only damage done has been so far to my scooter, ego and a badly grazed right knee.
I know people would say better safe than sorry and I have been lucky so far not to have hit another vehicle. But is there anything that I can do to change my first instinct which is to grab at the brakes at the first sight of a potential hazard? Are there any exercises one can do?
Only other thoughts that come to mind are to buy a Piaggio MP3 or get a bike with ABS / combined braking system - when all I really want is a Ducati!!
Any thoughts / insights welcome.
Thanks,
John
1) Car park at B&Q (don't laugh) where I was filtering on the outside a queue of cars to get to the motorcycle bays near the store entrance when a car parked on the right started reversing out.
2) 3 lanes at the lights which are red - inside lane is free (2 others full of traffic). I am going up the free lane when I spot the nose of a car starting to stick out (it is turning right) across the 2 lanes of stationary traffic. Admittedly, it was wet and greasy at the time but I ended up wiping out in front of said car that was turning.
On both occasions I get the impression I could have avoided the situation by greater anticipation / driving around it / reducing speed in a controlled manner / or the other car would have spotted me and stopped. However, I am overreacting and grabbing the front brake which causes the front of the bike to skid and me to hit the deck. Only damage done has been so far to my scooter, ego and a badly grazed right knee.
I know people would say better safe than sorry and I have been lucky so far not to have hit another vehicle. But is there anything that I can do to change my first instinct which is to grab at the brakes at the first sight of a potential hazard? Are there any exercises one can do?
Only other thoughts that come to mind are to buy a Piaggio MP3 or get a bike with ABS / combined braking system - when all I really want is a Ducati!!
Any thoughts / insights welcome.
Thanks,
John
My first (so far only) crash was grabbing the front brake... I only needed to do it once though 
Practice emergency stops, the initial application should be smooth, progressive and as the weight transfers forward, gradually increase the pressure on the lever - easy in an empty car park, hard to do in a true emergency, but you can train your brain / muscle memory until it becomes second nature.
Google "Target fixation" too, you go where you look and it takes a big mental effort to look where you want to go in a crisis
If you can analyse in your own mind what you could have done to avoid the acccident, then that will also help - being better mentally prepared etc.
Worth having a read through this site : www.survivalskills.clara.net/index.htm although it's more relevant to bigger bikes.
Someone with more experience will be along shorty with some words of wisdom!
Practice emergency stops, the initial application should be smooth, progressive and as the weight transfers forward, gradually increase the pressure on the lever - easy in an empty car park, hard to do in a true emergency, but you can train your brain / muscle memory until it becomes second nature.
Google "Target fixation" too, you go where you look and it takes a big mental effort to look where you want to go in a crisis
If you can analyse in your own mind what you could have done to avoid the acccident, then that will also help - being better mentally prepared etc.
Worth having a read through this site : www.survivalskills.clara.net/index.htm although it's more relevant to bigger bikes.
Someone with more experience will be along shorty with some words of wisdom!
Ah, I feel I may be of some use here!!!
Many moons ago, my first reaction was to grab for the clutch! Not sure why, just did. I've always been scared to nail the front brake for obvious reasons. However, my single biggest error was (and sometimes still is) is to lock my arms and kind of "freeze" therefore losing any directional control over the bike.
The only bit of advice I can give is to try and anticipate these issues, and expand your forward vision. Keep thinking to yourself that any minute now, someone in their car will try and knock me off.... cause I'm sure they do try!!
Good luck with it though, and await the proper answers!
Cheers.
Many moons ago, my first reaction was to grab for the clutch! Not sure why, just did. I've always been scared to nail the front brake for obvious reasons. However, my single biggest error was (and sometimes still is) is to lock my arms and kind of "freeze" therefore losing any directional control over the bike.
The only bit of advice I can give is to try and anticipate these issues, and expand your forward vision. Keep thinking to yourself that any minute now, someone in their car will try and knock me off.... cause I'm sure they do try!!
Good luck with it though, and await the proper answers!
Cheers.
Hi John,
Firstly I'd work on anticipation first, as I think you know yourself: rather than putting yourself in a position where you need to do emergency stops, give yourself the time to avoid these situations. A good way I've found is to call out hazards as you see them, describe the road to yourself. For instance, pedestrians on the pavement, traffic lights at red, cars turning across your path, warning signs etc. etc. In a busy urban environment you'll find that you will always have something to comment on and watch and correspondingly you will start to look further ahead. Try it for a couple of weeks; it's a bit odd at first, riding along talking to yourself, but it makes you look for hazards.
Secondly, yeah, find a quiet bit of road and practice your stops. The reason you are locking the front is because you are grabbing it: if you give it a gentle pull at first and then increase the pressure you transfer the weight onto the front giving you far more grip and therefore much more braking force. Big bikes are much more stable and in a straight line you can get away with front end locks, but you should still be able to stop your little putput quite quickly.
Firstly I'd work on anticipation first, as I think you know yourself: rather than putting yourself in a position where you need to do emergency stops, give yourself the time to avoid these situations. A good way I've found is to call out hazards as you see them, describe the road to yourself. For instance, pedestrians on the pavement, traffic lights at red, cars turning across your path, warning signs etc. etc. In a busy urban environment you'll find that you will always have something to comment on and watch and correspondingly you will start to look further ahead. Try it for a couple of weeks; it's a bit odd at first, riding along talking to yourself, but it makes you look for hazards.
Secondly, yeah, find a quiet bit of road and practice your stops. The reason you are locking the front is because you are grabbing it: if you give it a gentle pull at first and then increase the pressure you transfer the weight onto the front giving you far more grip and therefore much more braking force. Big bikes are much more stable and in a straight line you can get away with front end locks, but you should still be able to stop your little putput quite quickly.
Do try improving your observation and anticipation as this will help avoid emergency situations but there will always be occasions when you need to do an emergency stop.
You need to change your whole braking technique, and not just in emergencies. Make sure your braking is progressive, starting with a little pressure on the leaver then building more pressure as required. Finally ensure that you are easing the pressure off the lever just before the bike comes to a stop to avoid the big ‘bounce back’ on the forks.
Imagine a glass of water (almost full) sat on the handlebars. If you grab a ‘fist full’ of brake then the water will slop out of the glass. If you brake smoothly and progressively then the water will stay in the glass even at some serious rates of retardation.
If you do this all the time then you will instinctively do this in an emergency.
The other thing is to make sure you are using both brakes – always. Using the back brake helps steady and balance the bike as well as helping to slow the bike down.
edit for useless typing!
You need to change your whole braking technique, and not just in emergencies. Make sure your braking is progressive, starting with a little pressure on the leaver then building more pressure as required. Finally ensure that you are easing the pressure off the lever just before the bike comes to a stop to avoid the big ‘bounce back’ on the forks.
Imagine a glass of water (almost full) sat on the handlebars. If you grab a ‘fist full’ of brake then the water will slop out of the glass. If you brake smoothly and progressively then the water will stay in the glass even at some serious rates of retardation.
If you do this all the time then you will instinctively do this in an emergency.
The other thing is to make sure you are using both brakes – always. Using the back brake helps steady and balance the bike as well as helping to slow the bike down.
edit for useless typing!
Edited by black-k1 on Wednesday 14th March 08:35
Thanks for the advice and support guys - much appreciated.
Obviously training and rider skill are important, however, are bigger bikes / wheels more stable?
I am quite a big guy (6'2"/105kg) - would a full size motorbike / bigger scooter be more appropriate for someone of my size?
I have been looking at either a Honda SH300i or Piaggio MP3 400 as a potential upgrade to my humble GT125.
A red Ducati with some Termi cans went past me last night and I know which one my heart would go for!
Thanks,
John
Obviously training and rider skill are important, however, are bigger bikes / wheels more stable?
I am quite a big guy (6'2"/105kg) - would a full size motorbike / bigger scooter be more appropriate for someone of my size?
I have been looking at either a Honda SH300i or Piaggio MP3 400 as a potential upgrade to my humble GT125.
A red Ducati with some Termi cans went past me last night and I know which one my heart would go for!
Thanks,
John
I'd think something like a Kawasaki ER-5 would be well suited to your stature and useage as well as being more bike like and therefore better suited to your stated long term goal of getting a big Duc with Termi's.
Big wheels are undoubtedly more stable, but whether you'd see that much difference is probably a moot point. Personally I found 600cc bikes much easier to ride than 125's though.
Big wheels are undoubtedly more stable, but whether you'd see that much difference is probably a moot point. Personally I found 600cc bikes much easier to ride than 125's though.
I'm 6'3" and am very comfortable on my X9 125 - large with good brembo brakes - twin disks at the front (optional ABS), single at the rear. There's plenty of protecting bodywork in case of accident (My X8 was pretty good in my first accident!).
For braking the left lever is a front/rear split and the right is front only - I tend to use a combination of both for heavy braking, you need to practise getting the right combination...the glass of water idea is great (see the drift move Initial D for this ).
For anticipation I try to use all indicators available, looking through cars if necessary, if you're not sure where the car in front or next to you is going, try and keep an eye on the car's front wheel to detect a change in direction. I also try to use window reflections where possible to help anticipate.
Sounds a little paranoid but I'm having an operation to bolt together 2 bones in my foot in a couple of months time due to a careless driver pulling out without looking. Admittedly in my case there was nothing I could have done as the car gave no indication of change of direction until I was just behind its rear bumper. All this at 35mph...
For braking the left lever is a front/rear split and the right is front only - I tend to use a combination of both for heavy braking, you need to practise getting the right combination...the glass of water idea is great (see the drift move Initial D for this
). For anticipation I try to use all indicators available, looking through cars if necessary, if you're not sure where the car in front or next to you is going, try and keep an eye on the car's front wheel to detect a change in direction. I also try to use window reflections where possible to help anticipate.
Sounds a little paranoid but I'm having an operation to bolt together 2 bones in my foot in a couple of months time due to a careless driver pulling out without looking. Admittedly in my case there was nothing I could have done as the car gave no indication of change of direction until I was just behind its rear bumper. All this at 35mph...
I think this is an age and/or experience thing. The longer you drive/ride and the more miles you do (and maybe the more near misses you have!) the further you look ahead to try and anticipate what's going to happen next.
A teacher in primary school once told me (when i was learning to ride a push bike on the road) to assume that everyone else on the road is an idiot. Assume they are going to make every mistake you can think of. You plan for that and you'll be okay
A teacher in primary school once told me (when i was learning to ride a push bike on the road) to assume that everyone else on the road is an idiot. Assume they are going to make every mistake you can think of. You plan for that and you'll be okay
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