How should the front end feel?
Discussion
I'm still not 100% happy with how the front end of my car is handling.
I got the wheel alignment done last week and it improved it a huge amount but it's still a small bit twitchy on a road with an uneven or poor surface.
My question is how should the front end feel?
I know that's a hard thing to answer but, compared to a "normal" car, should the Cerb feel similar or is it meant to be a bit twitchy?
All the Cerbs I've driven were on pretty good road surfaces so it may be me being too fussy.
Still, I look forward to your replies.
I got the wheel alignment done last week and it improved it a huge amount but it's still a small bit twitchy on a road with an uneven or poor surface.
My question is how should the front end feel?
I know that's a hard thing to answer but, compared to a "normal" car, should the Cerb feel similar or is it meant to be a bit twitchy?
All the Cerbs I've driven were on pretty good road surfaces so it may be me being too fussy.
Still, I look forward to your replies.
What tyres do you have JJ? I changed from Bridgestone S03s to Goodyear Eagle F1s recently and it transformed the feel.
Someone once told me that choice of tyres on the Cerbs makes or breaks them, in terms of handling.
You have have a spin in mine next weekend and see if it feels much different.
(assuming my car's working by then, a little prob right now)!
Rgds
Andy.
Someone once told me that choice of tyres on the Cerbs makes or breaks them, in terms of handling.
You have have a spin in mine next weekend and see if it feels much different.
(assuming my car's working by then, a little prob right now)!
Rgds
Andy.
My Cerbera has a tendency to be twitchy as you describe, it is particularly noticeable when on the inside lane of main roads with 'ruts' caused by lorries.
Following lots of comments on threads, I believe there is a strong belief that 18" Spider Wheels don't help, certainly as far as ruts and undulations are concerned and I tend to go with that view. Last week I took out a friends Cerbera with standard wheels on and there was no twitching - but could be a coincidence, but somehow I don't think so!
As a rule I have 24lb rear and 22 front, with Toyos all round.
Look forward to seeing other replies on this one......
Following lots of comments on threads, I believe there is a strong belief that 18" Spider Wheels don't help, certainly as far as ruts and undulations are concerned and I tend to go with that view. Last week I took out a friends Cerbera with standard wheels on and there was no twitching - but could be a coincidence, but somehow I don't think so!
As a rule I have 24lb rear and 22 front, with Toyos all round.
Look forward to seeing other replies on this one......
I changed the fronts and rears at different times.
The car started with falkens all round. There was a definite improvement to front end grip when i fitted toyos. The way the rear end breaks away also changed when i put toyos on the back.
However, the car still feels like it's kind of "tucking under" a bit when I go round a sharp bend at high speed.....
The car started with falkens all round. There was a definite improvement to front end grip when i fitted toyos. The way the rear end breaks away also changed when i put toyos on the back.
However, the car still feels like it's kind of "tucking under" a bit when I go round a sharp bend at high speed.....
I find the front end is rock solid. Its the back end that is being a bit twitchy at the moment.
(The car is a 98 4.2 with the 16 inch wheels and Toyo T1S on the front and T1R on the rear)
On the often quite rough roads around here the ride gets a bit lively but the front never feels twitchy even making progress through the bends on some of the rougher roads and the car follows the line I am steering.
The back end is a different proposition at the moment. It didn't use to be but it does seem to tram line and skip on the nastier bumps now.
I was discussing this with Trackcar this morning. He reckons it may well be that I have the dampers wound up too much. Which makes sense because I notice it most when I'm in the car on my own. (I set the damping for the four of us and some luggage and a full tank of fuel.)
It could be the change to Toyo T1Rs last year prior to Back Home. Previously I had SO2s on the back and I don't remember the back end being twitchy with them on. But I don't remember any big difference at the time they were fitted either.
I agree with the comments on tyre pressures affecting the handling.
I used to run 22 Front and 24 Rear (as per the handbook). Then tried various conbinations, one of which was 26 all round. It was horrible. The front end felt very loose and I only did a couple of runs before I reverted to 22/24. With all four of us in the car I put 24/26 in. If its just me 22/24. But I'm not convinced I can really feel that much of a difference.
I would say experiment with tyre pressures first to see if it feels any different - the low cost simple option
(The car is a 98 4.2 with the 16 inch wheels and Toyo T1S on the front and T1R on the rear)
On the often quite rough roads around here the ride gets a bit lively but the front never feels twitchy even making progress through the bends on some of the rougher roads and the car follows the line I am steering.
The back end is a different proposition at the moment. It didn't use to be but it does seem to tram line and skip on the nastier bumps now.
I was discussing this with Trackcar this morning. He reckons it may well be that I have the dampers wound up too much. Which makes sense because I notice it most when I'm in the car on my own. (I set the damping for the four of us and some luggage and a full tank of fuel.)
It could be the change to Toyo T1Rs last year prior to Back Home. Previously I had SO2s on the back and I don't remember the back end being twitchy with them on. But I don't remember any big difference at the time they were fitted either.
I agree with the comments on tyre pressures affecting the handling.
I used to run 22 Front and 24 Rear (as per the handbook). Then tried various conbinations, one of which was 26 all round. It was horrible. The front end felt very loose and I only did a couple of runs before I reverted to 22/24. With all four of us in the car I put 24/26 in. If its just me 22/24. But I'm not convinced I can really feel that much of a difference.
I would say experiment with tyre pressures first to see if it feels any different - the low cost simple option
Scrooloose said:
....
However, the car still feels like it's kind of "tucking under" a bit when I go round a sharp bend at high speed.....
However, the car still feels like it's kind of "tucking under" a bit when I go round a sharp bend at high speed.....
A good description of how mine feels. It's a strange feeling because you sort of expect it to be doing the opposite. To 'exagerate to explain' it's like if I am taking a right hand bend I expect to feel the outside (passenger side) of the car wanting to turn over, instead it feels like my side of the car wants to 'tuck in' - does that make sense??
I probably should have said in my first post that I've got 16" spiders.
They are marked "front" and "rear".
I seem to remember that it was mentioned on here that they sometimes worked best with all of one type.
The tyres are Avons all round as far as I can remember (it's too cold and miserable here right now to go out and look).
They were with the car as a spare set when I got it.
The car had Marshall tyres on it when I picked it up and I drove it with them until I wore them out.
They actually may have been slightly better when they were on the car when I think about it.
And Andy, we might do a swap at the end of the day on Sunday and drive each others for a couple of miles to draw a comparison if you don't mind.
BTW, what's happened to it?
They are marked "front" and "rear".
I seem to remember that it was mentioned on here that they sometimes worked best with all of one type.
The tyres are Avons all round as far as I can remember (it's too cold and miserable here right now to go out and look).
They were with the car as a spare set when I got it.
The car had Marshall tyres on it when I picked it up and I drove it with them until I wore them out.
They actually may have been slightly better when they were on the car when I think about it.
And Andy, we might do a swap at the end of the day on Sunday and drive each others for a couple of miles to draw a comparison if you don't mind.
BTW, what's happened to it?
jensena said:
Scrooloose said:
....
However, the car still feels like it's kind of "tucking under" a bit when I go round a sharp bend at high speed.....
However, the car still feels like it's kind of "tucking under" a bit when I go round a sharp bend at high speed.....
A good description of how mine feels. It's a strange feeling because you sort of expect it to be doing the opposite. To 'exagerate to explain' it's like if I am taking a right hand bend I expect to feel the outside (passenger side) of the car wanting to turn over, instead it feels like my side of the car wants to 'tuck in' - does that make sense??
Side walls giving a bit on the rims perhaps
. I found this when I went from the very stiff side walled SO3's to GY F1's. I didn't like it one bit myself, found myself alone in preferring the So3's because of this. editted to add
1. This was on the V8S not the cerb btw
2. Worth trying over inflating them a bit to stiffen them up to see if it improves
Edited by HarryW on Monday 19th March 23:24
So what are you guys saying./. i am a new cerb owner..before that i drove carrera and M3..the carrera ate the road strong weighted handling very stable at high speed ..the m3 lighter steering but again tracking like on rails..the cerbera twitching like a nervous newcomer, being led astary by the slightest litle camber in the road. do these cars actually handle..or is this just the way cerbera are...i am having GAZ SHOCK fitted next week by APM so looking forward seeing the difference .does anyone actual own a car that is rock solid on the road..
The Cerb is definitely rock solid on a decent road.
The twitching only takes place on a very poor surface.
I think it really came to my attention over the weekend as I had my old R-34 Skyline out and drove a road where I had no trouble at all and drove the same road the following day in the Cerb and it felt horrible.
I suppose I want to try to achieve Skyline-style (or indeed BMW-style) handling on all roads as I do end up on all types of roads where I live.
For what it's worth, the Cerb is actually a more comfortable car to travel in (at least on the drivers side) than the Skyline and also does feel more planted at speed on a good road.
The twitching only takes place on a very poor surface.
I think it really came to my attention over the weekend as I had my old R-34 Skyline out and drove a road where I had no trouble at all and drove the same road the following day in the Cerb and it felt horrible.
I suppose I want to try to achieve Skyline-style (or indeed BMW-style) handling on all roads as I do end up on all types of roads where I live.
For what it's worth, the Cerb is actually a more comfortable car to travel in (at least on the drivers side) than the Skyline and also does feel more planted at speed on a good road.
The Cerb is basically a race car toned down for road use, and I think it's natural habitat is the Race Track. Any well driven modern Hot hatch will leave a Cerb for dead on a twisty A road. And in the wet my wifes little Clio 1.2 could be driven faster than my Cerb. Low weight and big wide tyres are great in the dry but a tad 'slidy' in the wet. It would be intersting for the 'Stig' to take a Cerbera round the track and see what time he does it in.
baguaman said:
yes,....it would seem this weekend i got eaten up by an m3...no contest..so can we make a cerb handle better or is this just a dream..
Your not trying hard enough.I recentley had a duel with a mate in an 04 plate M3,just off the A20 in Kent.He was in front till i found some space on some dual carriage way.Power down and he was trailing behind.Glancing in the mirror,i could see he was trying as the roll on his car in the corners and bends was noticable.I suppose what it all boils down to,is having the right set up for the car and having the ability and bravery to use the power.
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