Are all police drivers properly trained?
Discussion
I've noticed an awful lot of bad driving by police lately.
I don't mean to have a dig, but it's just something that I notice, probably more so because of their visibility on the road.
Some of the armed response vehicles I have seen, and generally the Motorway police seem to be very aware. But some of the local bobbies on the beat in my area leave a lot to be desired in the driving stakes.
Bad lane discipline, speeding in residential areas without blues and two's etc.
Some seem to have a problem with driving quickly on a 'shout'. I had one today come flying up behind me on the entrance to a busy roundabout. There were school kids crossing in front of me and I couldn't move out of his way immediately. When I did have an opportunity to move towards the central island, he made an attempt to squeeze between me and the island itself. I stopped to leave him room just as he made the decision to swing the other way. By this time, I couldn't really move as the traffic had stopped on the roundabout preventing me from going forwards and he had managed to get stuck right up my chuff.
Cue much arm waving from the copper and reversing before tearing off very aggressively around me.
He put me in such a tricky position that I couldn't get out of. I reacted in the only way that was safe to do so, and I feel he made not only a very poor judgement of the situation, but I was rather shocked at his discourteous manner.
I mean. He ballsed it up, not me
Like I say, this isn't a dig at the police, but just a genuine question after witnessing a few bits and pieces recently.
Cheers
I don't mean to have a dig, but it's just something that I notice, probably more so because of their visibility on the road.
Some of the armed response vehicles I have seen, and generally the Motorway police seem to be very aware. But some of the local bobbies on the beat in my area leave a lot to be desired in the driving stakes.
Bad lane discipline, speeding in residential areas without blues and two's etc.
Some seem to have a problem with driving quickly on a 'shout'. I had one today come flying up behind me on the entrance to a busy roundabout. There were school kids crossing in front of me and I couldn't move out of his way immediately. When I did have an opportunity to move towards the central island, he made an attempt to squeeze between me and the island itself. I stopped to leave him room just as he made the decision to swing the other way. By this time, I couldn't really move as the traffic had stopped on the roundabout preventing me from going forwards and he had managed to get stuck right up my chuff.
Cue much arm waving from the copper and reversing before tearing off very aggressively around me.
He put me in such a tricky position that I couldn't get out of. I reacted in the only way that was safe to do so, and I feel he made not only a very poor judgement of the situation, but I was rather shocked at his discourteous manner.
I mean. He ballsed it up, not me
Like I say, this isn't a dig at the police, but just a genuine question after witnessing a few bits and pieces recently.
Cheers
In my force there is no training for a basic driving permit, and some of my colleagues' driving really irritates me. Advanced drivers have a tough three week course to complete successfully before they are allowed to use the blues'n'twos, contravene the Highway Code etc. The advanced drivers I've sat with have almost all been very capable and competent.
I think that all police drivers should do the advanced course as part of initial training, but unfortunately the financial restrictions mean most officers have to wait years to attain a pretty important skill.
I think that all police drivers should do the advanced course as part of initial training, but unfortunately the financial restrictions mean most officers have to wait years to attain a pretty important skill.
julianhj said:
In my force there is no training for a basic driving permit, and some of my colleagues' driving really irritates me. Advanced drivers have a tough three week course to complete successfully before they are allowed to use the blues'n'twos, contravene the Highway Code etc. The advanced drivers I've sat with have almost all been very capable and competent.
I think that all police drivers should do the advanced course as part of initial training, but unfortunately the financial restrictions mean most officers have to wait years to attain a pretty important skill.
I think that all police drivers should do the advanced course as part of initial training, but unfortunately the financial restrictions mean most officers have to wait years to attain a pretty important skill.
Interesting.
A lot of it is common sense I suppose, but a lot of the coppers round 'ere do look very young. I'm guessing 19/20 ish. I know thats a sign of getting old but hey ho
I've had a very limited time under blues and two's as part of a few convoys, as in my vehicle was in a blue light convoy. I didn't get any formal training, but did get a briefing. The driver of the unit behind me said I was good as well :smug:
You have to process a hell of a lot of information very quickly... And bear in mind I was way back third or fourth car. The following distances are minute and with the speeds high and operating outside of the highway code does confuse a lot of motorists, so you have to watch out for peoples reactions... which could be anything.
Great fun though, and I had a stupid grin on my face the whole time. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
Lambo cop said:
The car in question, did it have its sirens on ?? Basic drivers in the Met can't drive on blues and twos as they have not been trained however some do and until the wheel comes off get away with it. ( Although black boxes are catching them )
Yes it did... A Skoda Fabia panda car.
A mate who is a serving firearms officer with Kent police told me there is a difference in the lighting unit on top of the car. Response cars have a red section in the light 'bar'. I have no idea if this means the driver will be trained or not though??
I think he was mentioning calibrated speedo's at the time (this would have been about '98).Lambo cop said:
Just to add a bit of blah......This is what Alex Eckford had to say about my driving...Just read the first few paragraphs and please don't edit the pictures....
www.autotrader.co.uk/EDITORIAL/CARS/FEATURES/AUTOTRADER/32637.html
www.autotrader.co.uk/EDITORIAL/CARS/FEATURES/AUTOTRADER/32637.html
I bet my copper didn't think 'Good Cabbie'!!
KingRichard
It's been done before, but here are the "levels" of driver training for Police:
Basic: Short (1-2hour) assessment. Can only drive "Panda" type cars from A to B. Cannot use auxiliary equipment, stop vehicles or pursue (the lights can be used if stationary to warn of a danger, but not to aid progress).
Standard: 3 week course - roughly the equivalent of IAM. Includes theory and practice, response driving (blues & twos). Can stop vehicles, but not pursue. Usually limited to 20mph above posted limit as a maximum on an emergency repsonse. Usually some skid control as well.
Advanced: 4 week course, all roads, manual and auto cars. Generally limited to 20mph above posted limits (red ringed), as fast as is safe in NSL.
There are then conversion courses for "speicalist" vehicles eg 4x4, vans, personnel carriers etc. To drive a PCV/LGV etc on Police busines, you have to have the relevant entitlement on your licence, then you get assessed by Driving School. There are very few forces that dish out these courses "in house" nowadays.
There are also role specific course such as pursuit training and security/escort driving.
Motorcyclists have a standard/advanced/security escort grading as well - but again, you need the entitlement on your DL before you can apply for a course. I think all Met trafpol have to have a bike licence as well, but I'm sure LamboCop will confirm (it was a requirement a few years back as a trafpol transferee).
It's been done before, but here are the "levels" of driver training for Police:
Basic: Short (1-2hour) assessment. Can only drive "Panda" type cars from A to B. Cannot use auxiliary equipment, stop vehicles or pursue (the lights can be used if stationary to warn of a danger, but not to aid progress).
Standard: 3 week course - roughly the equivalent of IAM. Includes theory and practice, response driving (blues & twos). Can stop vehicles, but not pursue. Usually limited to 20mph above posted limit as a maximum on an emergency repsonse. Usually some skid control as well.
Advanced: 4 week course, all roads, manual and auto cars. Generally limited to 20mph above posted limits (red ringed), as fast as is safe in NSL.
There are then conversion courses for "speicalist" vehicles eg 4x4, vans, personnel carriers etc. To drive a PCV/LGV etc on Police busines, you have to have the relevant entitlement on your licence, then you get assessed by Driving School. There are very few forces that dish out these courses "in house" nowadays.
There are also role specific course such as pursuit training and security/escort driving.
Motorcyclists have a standard/advanced/security escort grading as well - but again, you need the entitlement on your DL before you can apply for a course. I think all Met trafpol have to have a bike licence as well, but I'm sure LamboCop will confirm (it was a requirement a few years back as a trafpol transferee).
Quinny said:
I think the problem stems from a lot of the younger cops, not having a lot of driving experience, full stop.
Then they are expected to drive to an incident in a panda, and they assume MOP's know what their next move is going to be.
The other problem is a lot of the Numpties on the roads, don't know how to react when they see a police car behind.
A proper traffpol with loads of driving experience, will anticipate much better and make allowances for Numpties
Chances are that some of the younger panda users, are those very same numpties when off duty.
Just sticking them in a car with a siren and blue flashing lights, dosen't all of a sudden turn them into an experienced driver.
Then they are expected to drive to an incident in a panda, and they assume MOP's know what their next move is going to be.
The other problem is a lot of the Numpties on the roads, don't know how to react when they see a police car behind.
A proper traffpol with loads of driving experience, will anticipate much better and make allowances for Numpties
Chances are that some of the younger panda users, are those very same numpties when off duty.
Just sticking them in a car with a siren and blue flashing lights, dosen't all of a sudden turn them into an experienced driver.
I think it's good that we have younger police. Some of them can be a bit too condascending though, and it actually makes you think they are really immature. I can see why the police have trouble getting respect from some groups of the community.
Driving like a t
t isn't going to endear them to anyone either... Dibble said:
KingRichard
It's been done before, but here are the "levels" of driver training for Police:
Basic: Short (1-2hour) assessment. Can only drive "Panda" type cars from A to B. Cannot use auxiliary equipment, stop vehicles or pursue (the lights can be used if stationary to warn of a danger, but not to aid progress).
Standard: 3 week course - roughly the equivalent of IAM. Includes theory and practice, response driving (blues & twos). Can stop vehicles, but not pursue. Usually limited to 20mph above posted limit as a maximum on an emergency repsonse. Usually some skid control as well.
Advanced: 4 week course, all roads, manual and auto cars. Generally limited to 20mph above posted limits (red ringed), as fast as is safe in NSL.
There are then conversion courses for "speicalist" vehicles eg 4x4, vans, personnel carriers etc. To drive a PCV/LGV etc on Police busines, you have to have the relevant entitlement on your licence, then you get assessed by Driving School. There are very few forces that dish out these courses "in house" nowadays.
There are also role specific course such as pursuit training and security/escort driving.
Motorcyclists have a standard/advanced/security escort grading as well - but again, you need the entitlement on your DL before you can apply for a course. I think all Met trafpol have to have a bike licence as well, but I'm sure LamboCop will confirm (it was a requirement a few years back as a trafpol transferee).
It's been done before, but here are the "levels" of driver training for Police:
Basic: Short (1-2hour) assessment. Can only drive "Panda" type cars from A to B. Cannot use auxiliary equipment, stop vehicles or pursue (the lights can be used if stationary to warn of a danger, but not to aid progress).
Standard: 3 week course - roughly the equivalent of IAM. Includes theory and practice, response driving (blues & twos). Can stop vehicles, but not pursue. Usually limited to 20mph above posted limit as a maximum on an emergency repsonse. Usually some skid control as well.
Advanced: 4 week course, all roads, manual and auto cars. Generally limited to 20mph above posted limits (red ringed), as fast as is safe in NSL.
There are then conversion courses for "speicalist" vehicles eg 4x4, vans, personnel carriers etc. To drive a PCV/LGV etc on Police busines, you have to have the relevant entitlement on your licence, then you get assessed by Driving School. There are very few forces that dish out these courses "in house" nowadays.
There are also role specific course such as pursuit training and security/escort driving.
Motorcyclists have a standard/advanced/security escort grading as well - but again, you need the entitlement on your DL before you can apply for a course. I think all Met trafpol have to have a bike licence as well, but I'm sure LamboCop will confirm (it was a requirement a few years back as a trafpol transferee).
Very interesting. Also, am I within my rights to sound my horn at a copper as well? I just remembered one cut across my path on a roundabout earlier on. You know, grandad stylee
God this sounds like such a rant, but some of the driving is terrible!
KingRichard said:
Also, am I within my rights to sound my horn at a copper as well? I just remembered one cut across my path on a roundabout earlier on. You know, grandad stylee
If it fits in with correct use of the horn, then yes...
...but be prepared to get stopped and told off! (I'm not suggesting this is right, but it may happen, especially if the Police driver thinks he's better than he is!)
I'd say I'm a slightly above average driver, who's just lucky enough to have had the benefit of some extra training (advanced and pursuit car). I still have "off days" though...
profile pics
Dibble said:
KingRichard said:
Also, am I within my rights to sound my horn at a copper as well? I just remembered one cut across my path on a roundabout earlier on. You know, grandad stylee
If it fits in with correct use of the horn, then yes...
...but be prepared to get stopped and told off! (I'm not suggesting this is right, but it may happen, especially if the Police driver thinks he's better than he is!)
I'd say I'm a slightly above average driver, who's just lucky enough to have had the benefit of some extra training (advanced and pursuit car). I still have "off days" though...
Oops
profile pics
I have occasionally seen a Police driver doing things differently to what I would have expected. I try to move over to the left where possible if a Police car with B's and 2's is trying to get past me, but more importantly by keeping a regular eye on my mirrors I seem to know they are coming long before anyone else seems to be aware of it. I can think of more than 1 occasion when I've watched an emergency vehicle with blue lights on approach from some distance away, then I've pulled over to let it past to see the person behind me try to overtake and then the driver gets shocked by the noise when the emergency vehicle sounds it siren.
I regularly see posted in live jobs at work 'not response trained' next to a call sign going to an incident, this I was informed meant although they have 'basic' levels of training they cannot use Bs & 2s.
It would also appear that the 'driving schools' are very busy having to train police staff to a basic level as so many civilian roles now require the use of a car (not an operational vehicle, a fleet car / hire vehicle).
Carl
It would also appear that the 'driving schools' are very busy having to train police staff to a basic level as so many civilian roles now require the use of a car (not an operational vehicle, a fleet car / hire vehicle).
Carl
KingRichard said:
Dibble said:
KingRichard
It's been done before, but here are the "levels" of driver training for Police:
Basic: Short (1-2hour) assessment. Can only drive "Panda" type cars from A to B. Cannot use auxiliary equipment, stop vehicles or pursue (the lights can be used if stationary to warn of a danger, but not to aid progress).
Standard: 3 week course - roughly the equivalent of IAM. Includes theory and practice, response driving (blues & twos). Can stop vehicles, but not pursue. Usually limited to 20mph above posted limit as a maximum on an emergency repsonse. Usually some skid control as well.
Advanced: 4 week course, all roads, manual and auto cars. Generally limited to 20mph above posted limits (red ringed), as fast as is safe in NSL.
There are then conversion courses for "speicalist" vehicles eg 4x4, vans, personnel carriers etc. To drive a PCV/LGV etc on Police busines, you have to have the relevant entitlement on your licence, then you get assessed by Driving School. There are very few forces that dish out these courses "in house" nowadays.
There are also role specific course such as pursuit training and security/escort driving.
Motorcyclists have a standard/advanced/security escort grading as well - but again, you need the entitlement on your DL before you can apply for a course. I think all Met trafpol have to have a bike licence as well, but I'm sure LamboCop will confirm (it was a requirement a few years back as a trafpol transferee).
It's been done before, but here are the "levels" of driver training for Police:
Basic: Short (1-2hour) assessment. Can only drive "Panda" type cars from A to B. Cannot use auxiliary equipment, stop vehicles or pursue (the lights can be used if stationary to warn of a danger, but not to aid progress).
Standard: 3 week course - roughly the equivalent of IAM. Includes theory and practice, response driving (blues & twos). Can stop vehicles, but not pursue. Usually limited to 20mph above posted limit as a maximum on an emergency repsonse. Usually some skid control as well.
Advanced: 4 week course, all roads, manual and auto cars. Generally limited to 20mph above posted limits (red ringed), as fast as is safe in NSL.
There are then conversion courses for "speicalist" vehicles eg 4x4, vans, personnel carriers etc. To drive a PCV/LGV etc on Police busines, you have to have the relevant entitlement on your licence, then you get assessed by Driving School. There are very few forces that dish out these courses "in house" nowadays.
There are also role specific course such as pursuit training and security/escort driving.
Motorcyclists have a standard/advanced/security escort grading as well - but again, you need the entitlement on your DL before you can apply for a course. I think all Met trafpol have to have a bike licence as well, but I'm sure LamboCop will confirm (it was a requirement a few years back as a trafpol transferee).
Very interesting. Also, am I within my rights to sound my horn at a copper as well? I just remembered one cut across my path on a roundabout earlier on. You know, grandad stylee
God this sounds like such a rant, but some of the driving is terrible!
Dibble said:
[quote=KingRichard]Also, am I within my rights to sound my horn at a copper as well? I just remembered one cut across my path on a roundabout earlier on. You know, grandad stylee
If it fits in with correct use of the horn, then yes...
...but be prepared to get stopped and told off! (I'm not suggesting this is right, but it may happen, especially if the Police driver thinks he's better than he is!)
I'd say I'm a slightly above average driver, who's just lucky enough to have had the benefit of some extra training (advanced and pursuit car). I still have "off days" though...
Afew years ago a police patrol car entered a roundabout to go straight across and cut in front of me as I turned right. I had to brake to avoid it and sounded my horn. The police driver continued right around the roundabout, chased and stopped me and accussed me of trying to drive into his car! When my two passengers, both 17 at the time, pointed out that he had pulled out in front of me they were told to shut up because he wasn't talking to them. I ended up with a lecture and a producer. My two passengers were turned into anti-police youngsters.
My opinion was that he was just impatient and attempted to bully me into giving way.
The first message to hit home is that, contrary to popular opinion, the traffic police aren't out to stop people for the sake of it.
Hmm Ok Im reading...
Then goes on to say...
We stop a woman for driving erratically, another motorist whose number plate is obscured, and have a friendly word with a bus driver who's parked his vehicle on a blind corner. There are no armed robberies, no drug busts.
So what did the first paragraph say again???
The first message to hit home is that, contrary to popular opinion, the traffic police aren't out to stop people for the sake of it.
Right, OK
Still your a tall guy Lambo Cop , so I wouldnt argue with you
Mr F
Hmm Ok Im reading...
Then goes on to say...
We stop a woman for driving erratically, another motorist whose number plate is obscured, and have a friendly word with a bus driver who's parked his vehicle on a blind corner. There are no armed robberies, no drug busts.
So what did the first paragraph say again???
The first message to hit home is that, contrary to popular opinion, the traffic police aren't out to stop people for the sake of it.
Right, OK
Still your a tall guy Lambo Cop , so I wouldnt argue with you
Mr F
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