Is this Forum wrongly titled?
Discussion
LOL Reg - love that one
Spot on... I'm not sure that there is actually anything wrong with "Advanced Driving" as a title. The problem IMHO is the stereotype that has grown up around the AD fraternity. When we have long, long debates about thumb positioning of all things, I can only wonder at the reaction of most younger drivers... It must seem so completely irelevant to them, despite it being a valid topic (i suppose ;P)
Personally - I would suggest "Roadcraft" as a new title...
Personlly, I think people are turned on by topics relating to driving attitudes, car positioning, anticipation, observation, correct use of speed, safety maintenance, etc... and I think they are turned off by being told (in the first instance) how to hold a gearstick properly.
I am also amazed by how few posts appear in this forum compared to the others... I guess it just goes to show how most are consumed with the vroom vroom, and shiney things than the skills required to keep it all in one piece.
Spot on... I'm not sure that there is actually anything wrong with "Advanced Driving" as a title. The problem IMHO is the stereotype that has grown up around the AD fraternity. When we have long, long debates about thumb positioning of all things, I can only wonder at the reaction of most younger drivers... It must seem so completely irelevant to them, despite it being a valid topic (i suppose ;P)
Personally - I would suggest "Roadcraft" as a new title...
Personlly, I think people are turned on by topics relating to driving attitudes, car positioning, anticipation, observation, correct use of speed, safety maintenance, etc... and I think they are turned off by being told (in the first instance) how to hold a gearstick properly.
I am also amazed by how few posts appear in this forum compared to the others... I guess it just goes to show how most are consumed with the vroom vroom, and shiney things than the skills required to keep it all in one piece.
Edited by scoobmeister on Friday 23 March 19:28
R_U_LOCAL said:
_Neal_ said:
I agree - "Road Driving Skills"?
Why just road driving? It could be broadened to include track and competition driving skills. I'd very much like to read the opinions of experienced competitive drivers.
True - I was thinking that by putting the emphasis on "road" you'd still get performance driving, but avoid discussion of circuit techniques of the type you would get in the "trackdays" section of the forum - Having just been in the trackdays section I think you may be right though.
The purpose of this forum is to discuss the next level of road driving - typically with IAM, HPC, RoSPA, etc, etc.
I'd personally say that 'Advanced Driving' sums that up perfectly.
Track driving/performance driving has a different connotation. You could potentially argue that perhaps these are included in the 'Track days' forums, or at a push 'Roads'. Or perhaps it's own section under the 'Motorsports' section.
I suppose it depends on the scope of it.
K
I'd personally say that 'Advanced Driving' sums that up perfectly.
Track driving/performance driving has a different connotation. You could potentially argue that perhaps these are included in the 'Track days' forums, or at a push 'Roads'. Or perhaps it's own section under the 'Motorsports' section.
I suppose it depends on the scope of it.
K
Kinky said:
The purpose of this forum is to discuss the next level of road driving - typically with IAM, HPC, RoSPA, etc, etc.
I'd personally say that 'Advanced Driving' sums that up perfectly.
Track driving/performance driving has a different connotation. You could potentially argue that perhaps these are included in the 'Track days' forums, or at a push 'Roads'. Or perhaps it's own section under the 'Motorsports' section.
I suppose it depends on the scope of it.
K
I'd personally say that 'Advanced Driving' sums that up perfectly.
Track driving/performance driving has a different connotation. You could potentially argue that perhaps these are included in the 'Track days' forums, or at a push 'Roads'. Or perhaps it's own section under the 'Motorsports' section.
I suppose it depends on the scope of it.
K
That may be so, but shouldn't we all be open to new ideas and suggestions? I've gone as far as I can with advanced road driving (as far as qualifications go anyway), but I always feel like I want to learn more. The OPs point is that advanced driving has a (albeit mostly undeserved) fuddy-duddy image which it could do with shaking off.
R_U_LOCAL said:
scoobmeister said:
I agree with Reg...
Invite the competition drivers in and then assimilate them... Resistance... IS FUTILE!
Invite the competition drivers in and then assimilate them... Resistance... IS FUTILE!
I wonder how a rally driver's skills in keeping their car "loose" on a stage would compare with an IAM test?A potential problem here.
While the competition driver is totally internally assured of his or her skills, they are, in the main, prepared to accept that their competition exploits could result in injury or worse. That truth has to be, for many, deeply buried.
Otherwise they will not be able to commit fully.
The Public Highway, even when "making progress", must be approached with a different mindset to competition driving.
WhoseGeneration said:
R_U_LOCAL said:
scoobmeister said:
I agree with Reg...
Invite the competition drivers in and then assimilate them... Resistance... IS FUTILE!
Invite the competition drivers in and then assimilate them... Resistance... IS FUTILE!
I wonder how a rally driver's skills in keeping their car "loose" on a stage would compare with an IAM test?A potential problem here.
While the competition driver is totally internally assured of his or her skills, they are, in the main, prepared to accept that their competition exploits could result in injury or worse. That truth has to be, for many, deeply buried.
Otherwise they will not be able to commit fully.
The Public Highway, even when "making progress", must be approached with a different mindset to competition driving.
You don't say.
It doesn't make their experience and skills any less interesting or open to discussion though, does it? On the whole, this is a fairly mature forum, and I'm fairly sure most people who read it are able to distinguish between road and competition skills.
R_U_LOCAL said:
You don't say.
It doesn't make their experience and skills any less interesting or open to discussion though, does it? On the whole, this is a fairly mature forum, and I'm fairly sure most people who read it are able to distinguish between road and competition skills.
True and I wasn't trying to denigrate the contribution those with competition skills could bring yet I am concerned that some, perhaps young, might look in here and only relate to the "competition" techniques rather than consider them in the whole context of driving skills.
I have a small amount of competition experience and it is different.
The knowledge that the road ahead is closed to other traffic, with marshals there to help ensure that, radio communications to call help if needed and rescue and medical cover on hand means more brain function for the task in hand.
Public Highway, as you and all Advanced trainers say, "Expect the unexpected".
WhoseGeneration said:
The Public Highway, even when "making progress", must be approached with a different mindset to competition driving.
Obviously the relative importance of safety and progress are vastly different in these two environments, and for road driving the performance envelope of the car is far less important than simply avoiding surprises, but in both disciplines we want to minimise the demands placed on the vehicle for a given rate of progress.
Funnily enough, I hadn't realised the paucity of traffic on this topic. But, now you mention it. Yes true.
I wonder, if we could get the data, how many people are serial followers of the site.
I think that it's encouraging that so many people actually visit the topic. Obviously there is a need on many levels for exploring the topic.
I have noticed quite frequently , posts from people who have taken the various tuition and tests, and, are pretty pissed off that, though their actual roadcraft was good, it was in the application of it that they failed.
This, perhaps is the problem of attracting more people to it. I get the impression that the application of "driving" seems to be more important than the reality of car control and road sense.
I, personally am extremely grateful to the posters Bibs & non Bibs for the wealth of advice, comments, and the sense of enthusiasm for the subject.
So, yes, HOW DO WE MAKE ADVANCED DRIVING SEXY ??
I wonder, if we could get the data, how many people are serial followers of the site.
I think that it's encouraging that so many people actually visit the topic. Obviously there is a need on many levels for exploring the topic.
I have noticed quite frequently , posts from people who have taken the various tuition and tests, and, are pretty pissed off that, though their actual roadcraft was good, it was in the application of it that they failed.
This, perhaps is the problem of attracting more people to it. I get the impression that the application of "driving" seems to be more important than the reality of car control and road sense.
I, personally am extremely grateful to the posters Bibs & non Bibs for the wealth of advice, comments, and the sense of enthusiasm for the subject.
So, yes, HOW DO WE MAKE ADVANCED DRIVING SEXY ??
GreenV8S said:
WhoseGeneration said:
The Public Highway, even when "making progress", must be approached with a different mindset to competition driving.
Obviously the relative importance of safety and progress are vastly different in these two environments, and for road driving the performance envelope of the car is far less important than simply avoiding surprises, but in both disciplines we want to minimise the demands placed on the vehicle for a given rate of progress.
Yet, in competition, we want to get the last ounce (or gramme!) of performance capability out of the vehicle.
Or should do.
On the road, driving at sensible speeds for the conditions, even allowing for some "stretching" of limits, do you not think most modern vehicles are well within their performance envelope?
Which may be the problem for some drivers, in that modern vehicles are so capable that many drivers can proceed at a speed beyond their own road skills, till a problem situation presents itself.
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