Bringing an S series up-to-date
Discussion
I've wanted an S series since I was first introduced to them on PH. You all cajoled me into your way of thinking and now I can't escape the cult! 
Not to bore you with details, but cutting a long story short I decided to postpone purchase until my business was up and running. I'm pleased to report that everything is coming good now, and with a fair wind I will start to take wages again from next month. Thanks Mum and Dad for helping me out and to all the PH'ers who lent their advice, it was invaluable.
Right, still with me?
Ok, I'm going to be buying an S. Not sure which one though...
One of my part time drivers is an ex Caterham engineer and is quite happy to help me maintain and improve the car.
What areas would be high on the list for improving road holding, power and appearance? By appearance I mean little touches that can help bring the shape up to date a little, rather than making it too bling
Decent set of wheels would fatten up the looks no end though
Is it worth buying one that is about £3500 or should I buy the best I can afford? Bearing in mind I wouldn't really want to mess with an already bright car, but would be quite happy doing what I wanted with one that needed the TLC in the first place.
Cheers.
Not to bore you with details, but cutting a long story short I decided to postpone purchase until my business was up and running. I'm pleased to report that everything is coming good now, and with a fair wind I will start to take wages again from next month. Thanks Mum and Dad for helping me out and to all the PH'ers who lent their advice, it was invaluable.
Right, still with me?
Ok, I'm going to be buying an S. Not sure which one though...
One of my part time drivers is an ex Caterham engineer and is quite happy to help me maintain and improve the car.
What areas would be high on the list for improving road holding, power and appearance? By appearance I mean little touches that can help bring the shape up to date a little, rather than making it too bling
Decent set of wheels would fatten up the looks no end though
Is it worth buying one that is about £3500 or should I buy the best I can afford? Bearing in mind I wouldn't really want to mess with an already bright car, but would be quite happy doing what I wanted with one that needed the TLC in the first place.
Cheers.
From the title of your post I would imagine that whatever you buy you intend doing some modifying, in which case it would seem wrong to pay top price for a mint car only to start altering it to suit your preferences, maybe look for something thats got a good chassis and body but has been neglected a little on the mechanical side that way you will be replacing bits that you havent actually paid a premium for and ending up with what you want for about (It will be more) what you would have paid for a top notch standard one.
Having said all that having been looking at this forum for about a year it is obvious that most owners do sensible upgrades and take a lot of pride in their vehicles, if you could purchase one of the good ones you may get what you want straight off and save time and effort.
I have just sat back ,read what I have written and realised I have in no way whatsoever answered your question, but Ill leave it on anyway
Having said all that having been looking at this forum for about a year it is obvious that most owners do sensible upgrades and take a lot of pride in their vehicles, if you could purchase one of the good ones you may get what you want straight off and save time and effort.
I have just sat back ,read what I have written and realised I have in no way whatsoever answered your question, but Ill leave it on anyway
clarenceboddiger said:
From the title of your post I would imagine that whatever you buy you intend doing some modifying, in which case it would seem wrong to pay top price for a mint car only to start altering it to suit your preferences, maybe look for something thats got a good chassis and body but has been neglected a little on the mechanical side that way you will be replacing bits that you havent actually paid a premium for and ending up with what you want for about (It will be more) what you would have paid for a top notch standard one.
Having said all that having been looking at this forum for about a year it is obvious that most owners do sensible upgrades and take a lot of pride in their vehicles, if you could purchase one of the good ones you may get what you want straight off and save time and effort.
I have just sat back ,read what I have written and realised I have in no way whatsoever answered your question, but Ill leave it on anyway
Having said all that having been looking at this forum for about a year it is obvious that most owners do sensible upgrades and take a lot of pride in their vehicles, if you could purchase one of the good ones you may get what you want straight off and save time and effort.
I have just sat back ,read what I have written and realised I have in no way whatsoever answered your question, but Ill leave it on anyway
No. That is helpful.
Apart from being a bit vague
KingRichard said:
What areas would be high on the list for improving road holding, power and appearance? By appearance I mean little touches that can help bring the shape up to date a little, rather than making it too bling
Decent set of wheels would fatten up the looks no end though
I'm not sure the S is the platform to start from if you want a powerhouse car, with excellent handling and modern looks. Decent set of wheels would fatten up the looks no end though
The S has a classic look (based on the original 70s 3000s) which I feel would be spoilt by attempting modernising it, you see a few around that have been "Levened" to death and I don't feel it befits the style of the car. As regards handling you're always going to be somewhat limited due to the trailing arm setup, similarly you won't get massive gains through engine tuning, not without spending more than the money of low-priced S1s in the first place.
If this is your bag, I'd recommend a Chimaera to be honest, for a few reasons. Firstly as a chassis platform its a better place to start for improved handling, you can get a bigger engine and there are more mods available and it seems to carry them a little better than the S or Griff do (after all it is the hairdressers car of the range
) But saying that I love the handling of the S, you can have plenty of fun tweaking it yourself and still get good improvments on power, so get in one and have a go.
Tripps said:
I'm not sure the S is the platform to start from if you want a powerhouse car,
GreenV8S might not agree
If you want serious mods forget the V6 unless you drop a cosworth engine in
If you want to do a little tinkering ie mostly small scale,wheels brakes, interior,lights suspension.Then any TVR will do.It really is down to you budget and what you are aiming for.
Personally id buy a basket case V6 or V8,with a sound chassis and start from there if you're doing major mods but if its only small scale then get a fairly straight car,its amazing how costs and time required to do jobs just increse
pies said:
Tripps said:
I'm not sure the S is the platform to start from if you want a powerhouse car,
GreenV8S might not agreeIMO buying an S (espcially a V8S) is done for love these days, if someone wanted to spend that much money on a TVR they'd be much wiser to buy a Chimaera, unless they really love the S shape and handling.
What is it you're hoping to achieve power and handling-wise?
The S series, while getting on for 20 years old for the first models, isn't exactly a slow or badly-handling model in standard trim. The best logic I've read on here is, with regards to upgrades, if you're looking for Griff or Cerbera performance, buy a Griff or Cerbera. As soon as you start upgrading some areas, you start to show weakness or mismatches in other areas.
It would be good to get you into an S for a test drive to see if it already has the performance you want and to go from there.
The S series, while getting on for 20 years old for the first models, isn't exactly a slow or badly-handling model in standard trim. The best logic I've read on here is, with regards to upgrades, if you're looking for Griff or Cerbera performance, buy a Griff or Cerbera. As soon as you start upgrading some areas, you start to show weakness or mismatches in other areas.
It would be good to get you into an S for a test drive to see if it already has the performance you want and to go from there.
KingRichard said:
What areas would be high on the list for improving road holding
There have plenty of threads on here about suspension mods. I couldn't believe the difference when I had a new set fitted and properly set up. I don't want to start the whole debate again about which are best but mine are from Gaz and do all I want them to.
KingRichard said:
By appearance I mean little touches that can help bring the shape up to date a little, rather than making it too bling
Difficult balance to achieve. As has been said one of the appeals of the S is the classic looks so I'd leave the body as is and go for improving the mechanicals.
If I were you I'd get a sound car that you can drive and get the most out of this summer, then having done some miles in it you'll be able to see which areas you want to improve first. You can then use the cold dark days of next winter to work on the car as you wish. I'd suggest:
1. drive a standard car to see if you think it has the potential for what you want
2. change the suspension (you don't need more power to enjoy better / more confident cornering),
3. improve the brakes (why have more power if you can't stop well!)
4. finally tweak the engine if you want to.
Hope above helps
Longers
I'm not convinced there's a huge amount of scope to change the appearance of the S series...
You could go for different wheels as previously suggested, and I've seen a few with smoked lenses over the lights. Other than that, I think the options are quite limited. I suppose you could have the car re-sprayed; there were some pictures on here recently of a V8S with a mirrorflake paint job which looked good.
There are loads of after-market bits of trim for the interior, if this is your thing. I've tried to keep mine fairly original apart from the stereo. I even put back the original Ford gear knob, cause I hated the one that the previous owner had put on!!
You could go for different wheels as previously suggested, and I've seen a few with smoked lenses over the lights. Other than that, I think the options are quite limited. I suppose you could have the car re-sprayed; there were some pictures on here recently of a V8S with a mirrorflake paint job which looked good.
There are loads of after-market bits of trim for the interior, if this is your thing. I've tried to keep mine fairly original apart from the stereo. I even put back the original Ford gear knob, cause I hated the one that the previous owner had put on!!
HarryW said:
...perhaps better and bigger wheels/tyres
This is the one I'd most avoid having had a few cars now with 18"s and monster tyres I'd stick with the handling the smaller tyres on the S give me, as its far more fun and adjustable and I reckon is part of the S soul, the ability to drift out at sensible speed letting you enjoy the car. Some bigger wheels do look good on an S, but I reckon TVR have always been one of the better comapanies at matching wheels to body-styles (until they got lazy and used spiders everywhere) so have always been happy with the original OZ wheels.
Some interesting posts so far.
I've driven a few and love the noise but I haven't really explored the handling. I mean. It's hardly fair to rag someone elses car really hard just to see if you like it. I've heard stories about Tivs snapping suddenly and although quite comfortable 'exploring' handling limits on my own at night, I really wouldn't want to risk someone elses car or life.
My OP was probably a bit vague and over excitable TBH
Think of a TVR S plus if you will. Just a little bit tweaked, louder and sharper handling. I love the looks of the standard car or I would be looking at a Chim etc... I just think some little tweaks could really lift the car visually.
How much to do a cosworth transplant? And is it worth it? I would have thought a 2.9 V6 could be tuned to quite a reasonable state before a transplant would be necessary. Is this right?
Cheers
I've driven a few and love the noise but I haven't really explored the handling. I mean. It's hardly fair to rag someone elses car really hard just to see if you like it. I've heard stories about Tivs snapping suddenly and although quite comfortable 'exploring' handling limits on my own at night, I really wouldn't want to risk someone elses car or life.
My OP was probably a bit vague and over excitable TBH
Think of a TVR S plus if you will. Just a little bit tweaked, louder and sharper handling. I love the looks of the standard car or I would be looking at a Chim etc... I just think some little tweaks could really lift the car visually.
How much to do a cosworth transplant? And is it worth it? I would have thought a 2.9 V6 could be tuned to quite a reasonable state before a transplant would be necessary. Is this right?
Cheers
One of the nicest things about the S series is the handling. It's a very direct and nimble car with plenty of driver involvement and feedback. With an LSD and a good suspension setup the handling is extremely benign and predictable and on the track these cars consistently perform better against the later models than you'd expect purely from the bhp rating. The later models are much more refined but that seems to distance you from the road somehow, there's no doubt they are far more competent as tourers but I think the S chuckability makes it really good fun when you're throwing it around. The V6 cars have enough power to make it entertaining but there's scope to raise the power considerably without spoiling the handling if that's your cup of tea.
Echoing what Peter says above .. the S is a brilliant track car. it's handling actually improves in teh wet aswell, unlike it's bigger TVR stablemates .. they are genuinely great fun on track, and can humble much more powerful cars if well set up.
I would personally steer clear of the V6 cars if you're after a true performance biased car, they can be made to go well but it's harder .. most have drum rear brakes and the V6 lacks the midrange of the V8 .. and there's a whole host of cheap tuning options for the old rover V8, less so for the old ford V6.
There's a few of us successfully tracking our V8S versions and they can be made truly great for little money.
Best thing is also they're very reliable, mine has cost me only a fuel tank in upkeep (aside from general servicing when i think it needs it) .. I've got biger brakes, adjustable suspension and replaced the suspension bushes and done some very light engine tuning to bring my 114000 mile engine back to where it would have been as std .. but that's it. i reckon it costs me about 500 pounds a year in maintenance!
go on, you know you want to!!
I would personally steer clear of the V6 cars if you're after a true performance biased car, they can be made to go well but it's harder .. most have drum rear brakes and the V6 lacks the midrange of the V8 .. and there's a whole host of cheap tuning options for the old rover V8, less so for the old ford V6.
There's a few of us successfully tracking our V8S versions and they can be made truly great for little money.
Best thing is also they're very reliable, mine has cost me only a fuel tank in upkeep (aside from general servicing when i think it needs it) .. I've got biger brakes, adjustable suspension and replaced the suspension bushes and done some very light engine tuning to bring my 114000 mile engine back to where it would have been as std .. but that's it. i reckon it costs me about 500 pounds a year in maintenance!
go on, you know you want to!!
Tripps said:
IMO buying an S (espcially a V8S) is done for love these days, if someone wanted to spend that much money on a TVR they'd be much wiser to buy a Chimaera, unless they really love the S shape and handling.
Not really, it all depends what you want the car for surely? If its an everyday car Id agree, the newer TVR'S ARE better cars, so are easier to live with and better cars to live with day to day. BUT if you are looking for a fun second car like me, the newer cars lose some of the 'fun' element because they are better cars (if that makes sense). If I wanted a Sagaris Id buy one I have driven them all and can honestly say for no frills out and out fun you cant beat the S.
Back on topic, as for updating the S I like the way the S looks in its own retro way so I prefer mods to keep the retro look. From someone that has modified the S quite a bit I would keep the mods in line with the S looks or selling it may be difficult. Mind selling an S after owning one will always be difficult, believe me
My car has been in a lock up for a bit over winter and I had thought of selling up and buying a 911 but after I got her back and drove her again, those thoughts disapeared, very quickly Mike
V8Smith said:
Tripps said:
IMO buying an S (espcially a V8S) is done for love these days, if someone wanted to spend that much money on a TVR they'd be much wiser to buy a Chimaera, unless they really love the S shape and handling.
Not really, it all depends what you want the car for surely? If its an everyday car Id agree, the newer TVR'S ARE better cars, so are easier to live with and better cars to live with day to day. BUT if you are looking for a fun second car like me, the newer cars lose some of the 'fun' element because they are better cars (if that makes sense). If I wanted a Sagaris Id buy one I have driven them all and can honestly say for no frills out and out fun you cant beat the S.
Back on topic, as for updating the S I like the way the S looks in its own retro way so I prefer mods to keep the retro look. From someone that has modified the S quite a bit I would keep the mods in line with the S looks or selling it may be difficult. Mind selling an S after owning one will always be difficult, believe me
My car has been in a lock up for a bit over winter and I had thought of selling up and buying a 911 but after I got her back and drove her again, those thoughts disapeared, very quickly Mike
Mike. Your V8 is totally droolworthy :dribble:
I have done a few subtle mods on my S3 - namely 17" Racehart alloys, crystal halogen headlights, more modern oval side repeaters, slightly smoked rear lenses and updated door mirrors - I wanted to update it slightly without going all chavtastic or spoiling it.
You can see a pic in my profile - I would post one up if I knew how but maybe someone clever will be along shortly to do this for me.
Cheers
Graham
You can see a pic in my profile - I would post one up if I knew how but maybe someone clever will be along shortly to do this for me.
Cheers
Graham
KingRichard said:
How much to do a cosworth transplant? And is it worth it? I would have thought a 2.9 V6 could be tuned to quite a reasonable state before a transplant would be necessary. Is this right?
How long is a piece of string. It depends whether you want to do the transplant yourself/partly yourself or offload the project as we did. Doing it that way I think we waved goodbye to around £6k at a guess.
The standard lump isn't very tuneable and as can be seen from the conversion costs, the ££ effective way to get faster performance is to buy the V8S from the outset.
I would agree with pete and Joolz in that the handling/feedback from the S is superb and a lot better than I found from the Griff/Chim era of TVRs. I remain defiant in arguing I could have got around a non-power circuit quicker in my old V6 S (my old grey one rather than the blue cossie one) quicker than I could have in my Chimaera.
V8Smith said:
Tripps said:
IMO buying an S (espcially a V8S) is done for love these days, if someone wanted to spend that much money on a TVR they'd be much wiser to buy a Chimaera, unless they really love the S shape and handling.
Not really, it all depends what you want the car for surely? If its an everyday car Id agree, the newer TVR'S ARE better cars, so are easier to live with and better cars to live with day to day. BUT if you are looking for a fun second car like me, the newer cars lose some of the 'fun' element because they are better cars (if that makes sense). If I wanted a Sagaris Id buy one I have driven them all and can honestly say for no frills out and out fun you cant beat the S.What I was alluding to is given the price point, better chassis and improved quality in the Chimaera it takes a break from the norm to spend that money on a V8S instead.
A lot of us love the S for the extra involvement and communication with the road, the fact you can really drive it and not just cruise/waft around as you can end up doing in the newer cars (especially the Sag and Tuscan 2), keeping up with something like a Tuscan 2 on flowing roads really makes you feel alive in an S.
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