Ferrari/Gallardo Versus 911 Turbo Running Costs

[wanta996]

Hi Guys,

I am from the Porsche gassing station and we are having a discussion on yearly running costs of an "Everyday Supercar" - the 911 Turbo! to a Ferrari 355/360/Gallardo etc,etc. We have quotes from 1k a year to 3k a year runnig costs and i would like to know what the difference is.

Current thread,lower half of the thread - www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=371263&f=48&h=0

DAZREN 's TT profile - www.pistonheads.co.uk/members/show

Note - A friend of mine just bought the Black 04(13k miles)E-Gear from Lamborghini Birmingham so any input would also be helpful.

[rogerb]

Totally incomparable - you should budget in my view at least 3-5x the annual maintenance costs of a 996TT for any Ferrari V8 or Lambo. The V12s will be even worse. Last month's Evo gave 911s 5 stars for costs versus 0 or 1 for Fezzers and Lambos (model dependent).

[crikeymikey]

I've had my Gallardo 2 years from new, now 12000 miles. Nothing has ever gone wrong with the little fella.

He's used up 2 sets of rear tyres (budget £600 a pair) and drinks a litre of oil every 4000 miles or so.

Front tyres hardly wear atall, but then I don't push the front. I suspect Andy Cummings goes through fronts almost as quickly as rears.

My total average fuel ecenomy has been 17mpg over 2 years, which I think is bloody reasonable. Single figure fuel economy is easy to see but you do run out of road VERY quickly when this happens. Worst I've ever seen was 3.7mpg. I put my decent average consumption down to the fact that I tend to short-shift and use the engine torque (hence 5000 mile tyre life) rather than rev the knackers off it. Torque peaks at 4500rpm and then holds steady to the redline.

I've had one service at 7500 miles (budget £1000 for what is essentially an oil and filter change and a ton of safety checks).

The 15000 mile service is around £2000 (presumeably this is because I'll need a washer fluid top-up. ), 30000 mile service (major service) is about £2300.

In the long term, cams are chain driven (as are all Lambos) and doesn't require engine to be removed, so this is no biggie when it's necessary.

The scarey bit is that, aside from regular maintenance, if anything needs doing labour rates and spares prices are consistant with a manufacturer who only makes 9 cars a day, priced between £130K and £200K.

Hope this puts it in perspective and a big to all in the Porsche section of PH.

Edited by crikeymikey on Wednesday 28th March 12:48

[wanta996]

Thanks Mikey & Roger, i was hoping for more of a response but i will soon find out myself - Gallardo is a O4 E Gear(13kmiles)Birmingham Lamborghini have gave a years warranty but would only cover the clutch for a shorter time. We are based in scotland so they suggested an extra £600 to deliver?? Bare in mind that that they have just opened a franchise in Edinburgh which is again linked to Bentley (I assume its the VW Link).

[rogerb]

crikeymikey said:

I've had one service at 7500 miles (budget £1000 for what is essentially an oil and filter change and a ton of safety checks).

The 15000 mile service is around £2000 (presumeably this is because I'll need a washer fluid top-up. ), 30000 mile service (major service) is about £2300.

Yes this is what I was getting at, as I think 911TT services are in the range of £400-£600. I have excluded insurance, fuel consumption, depreciation etc from the equation and was just referring to basic service costs.

[ted 191]

rogerb said:

crikeymikey said:

I've had one service at 7500 miles (budget £1000 for what is essentially an oil and filter change and a ton of safety checks).

The 15000 mile service is around £2000 (presumeably this is because I'll need a washer fluid top-up. ), 30000 mile service (major service) is about £2300.

Yes this is what I was getting at, as I think 911TT services are in the range of £400-£600. I have excluded insurance, fuel consumption, depreciation etc from the equation and was just referring to basic service costs.

My 997C2S first service at 20k miles £240
My Gallardo yearly service £1500,if i do 100 miles or 7500miles
if one had to go,def the porker,your only here once

[burriana]

ted 191 said:

...your only here once

and Chris does like people to know he's been!

[rogerb]

burriana said:

ted 191 said:

...your only here once

and Chris does like people to know he's been!

[wanta996]

Car arrived last night as a suprise - Surely one of the most beautiful cars ever penned? First impressions:-

1. Noise is defening
2. Sports Seats are rock solid
3. E Gear takes a bit to get use to - Having to put the car in Neutral everytime you stop at lights or juction(Advised by Salesman)
4. Auto mode seems a bit jerky, not as smooth as i would have thought
5. Acceleration is frightening
6. Brakes seem a bit spongy? Not sure if there is an issue here but they seem to need a right good press to response (Any advice would be welcome)
7. Seems to corner like my old Elise
8. Not too happy going slowly
9. Peddles seem to be set slightly to the left
10. Interior build quality seems as good as any car i have been in (Audi link i assume)

Note this is not my car but a close friend of mines who traded in his Conti against it BUT has no clue about the mechanics of a car so i may need your advice now and then on some issues.(Just to clarify - Its a 2004 E Gear (13k miles) bought from Lamborghini Birmingham)

[rogerb]

Top end of brake pedal can be a little spongy - having said that, I presume the brakes were bled as part of PDI??

[crikeymikey]

wanta996 said:

Car arrived last night as a suprise - Surely one of the most beautiful cars ever penned? First impressions:-

1. Noise is defening
2. Sports Seats are rock solid
3. E Gear takes a bit to get use to - Having to put the car in Neutral everytime you stop at lights or juction(Advised by Salesman)
4. Auto mode seems a bit jerky, not as smooth as i would have thought
5. Acceleration is frightening
6. Brakes seem a bit spongy? Not sure if there is an issue here but they seem to need a right good press to response (Any advice would be welcome)
7. Seems to corner like my old Elise
8. Not too happy going slowly
9. Peddles seem to be set slightly to the left
10. Interior build quality seems as good as any car i have been in (Audi link i assume)

Note this is not my car but a close friend of mines who traded in his Conti against it BUT has no clue about the mechanics of a car so i may need your advice now and then on some issues.(Just to clarify - Its a 2004 E Gear (13k miles) bought from Lamborghini Birmingham)

Best bet is to do "search". However:
4) Auto is total crap and all but useless IMO. Only the disabled need an auto function in a supercar. In which case it's still crap but it's better than nothing. E-gear is a MANUAL system, with a half-assed Auto function for those who don't understand how/when and why to change gear.
5) For a car, yes, but £9K superbike is truely terrifying.
6) Brakes should be reasonably firm, but they do feel a little dead. Jonny5 will attest to how my brakes are. They will rumble when pushed repeatedly though.
7) A fair comparison. Body roll is negligable.
8) Slow traffic is the Achilles Heel of E-gear. A 200mph pedal and no clutch to manually ease the power off means it's all done on the throttle. Nothing practice can't cure for the most part.
9) Yes.
10) Again. Yes. Nothing should rattle or creak. It's nicely made, if a little austere.

Get your mate to read my "Gallardo Startup" thread, as this will save a few histrionics.

And, congrats!

[wanta996]

Thanks Guys - Mikey - Where do i find your "Gallardo Start Up" advice? Could be handy?

[crikeymikey]

wanta996 said:

Thanks Guys - Mikey - Where do i find your "Gallardo Start Up" advice? Could be handy?

It's on the forum somewhere. A couple of pages back at the most, titled as above.

[wanta996]

Just read it Mikey, and have to admit that i did find it strange last night that when i first went in it, after the key was turned - there was approx 10 seconds beeping before you could actually start the car. I assume its there for a good reason! LOL.

Thanks again

[crikeymikey]

wanta996 said:

Just read it Mikey, and have to admit that i did find it strange last night that when i first went in it, after the key was turned - there was approx 10 seconds beeping before you could actually start the car. I assume its there for a good reason! LOL.

Thanks again

Sometimes Larry beeps at me just for the hell of it! So long as there aren't any warning lights on he usually shuts up once he's moving.

I guess it's ike a dog wagging his tail in anticipation of "walkies".

[wanta996]

Warning Lights?? - Any specific ones to look out for?

And can you tell if the clutch is about to go with it not being the conventinal set up that your everyday driver is used to? (Clutch is the only continuous problem that seems to pop up).

Also, this might be a strange query but does the Gallardo run normaly with standard unleaded?

Edited by wanta996 on Thursday 29th March 15:28

[crikeymikey]

wanta996 said:

Warning Lights?? - Any specific ones to look out for?

And can you tell if the clutch is about to go with it not being the conventinal set up that your everyday driver is used to? (Clutch is the only continuous problem that seems to pop up).

Also, this might be a strange query but does the Gallardo run normaly with standard unleaded?

Edited by wanta996 on Thursday 29th March 15:28

All warning lights should go out but the most common one to expect is either of the ECL lights (1-5 or 6-10). These can be triggered by a variety of conditions but are usually erroneous. Continuous use in slow traffic can cause the throttle bodies to foul up and give an ECL light. Failure to abide by the correct warm-up (or not) procedure, etc.

Regarding clutch wear. As with any car, a full throttle in 3rd or 4th gear will show early signs of clutch wear by slipping when under full load.
E-gear has the advantage of the technician being able to plug the laptop in and tell you the amount of wear. With the "flappy stick" transmission you have to rely on your own instincts as there's no inspection window or anything.

Like any proper performance car the Gallardo can tell the difference between crap fuel and good fuel. DO NOT USE SUPERMARKET FUEL. They buy it from whereever they can and it's rarely the same supplier twice. And it's not always good. Stick V Power in, or equivalent. Anything else is just false economy IMO.

There are lots of little quirks with the Gallardo. Almost all of which are operator induced.

[wanta996]

8th April Gallardo Update:-

Positives -
1.Looks more beautiful the more i see it
2.E-Gear seems a breeze to use now although trying to park up ontop of a slight hill in 1st gear seems a bit of a hassle
3.Handling seems "better" than my previous Elise
4.Mpg seems reasonable for a supercar
5.Sense of precense is surely unmatchable for £100k

Minuses -
1.Vibrating Noise coming from steering column
2.Vibrating noise coming from rear drivers side, only seems to happen with high speeds or when acceleraiting
3.Engine management light came on with codes 1-5 then 5-10?? NOTE that the car was low on fuel at the time so i do not know if this is linked.

Finnaly -
Car is getting picked up this week by Lamborghini to look at the vibrating problem - i wonder what/if any courtesy car they will supply.

P.S. Why have a Reverse button that you press on the dash?

[crikeymikey]

wanta996 said:

8th April Gallardo Update:-

Positives -
1.Looks more beautiful the more i see it
2.E-Gear seems a breeze to use now although trying to park up ontop of a slight hill in 1st gear seems a bit of a hassle
3.Handling seems "better" than my previous Elise
4.Mpg seems reasonable for a supercar
5.Sense of precense is surely unmatchable for £100k

Minuses -
1.Vibrating Noise coming from steering column
2.Vibrating noise coming from rear drivers side, only seems to happen with high speeds or when acceleraiting
3.Engine management light came on with codes 1-5 then 5-10?? NOTE that the car was low on fuel at the time so i do not know if this is linked.

Finnaly -
Car is getting picked up this week by Lamborghini to look at the vibrating problem - i wonder what/if any courtesy car they will supply.

P.S. Why have a Reverse button that you press on the dash?

If you think hills are a pain now, wait untill you come across just the wrong combination of slow gradient and throttle position, and start kangarooing. It would be funny if it didn't feel a bit scarey. It's only happened to me once and I don't know whether that's because the software has 'learnt' a new trick and overcome the problem, or whether I'm just more assertive with the throttle (it was in my very early ownership).

On your "Minuses" front. That vibration shouldn't be there.
Check your pressures (32 psi front, 34 rear.. though a couple of psi one way or the other won't effect things greatly).
If pressures are OK, get the balance checked, on all 4 wheels.
I have some experience of high speed vibration (ahem!) and it was a puncture both times.

Engine lights. Most probably nothing, as 9 out 10 Gallardo faults appear to spurious. If the throttle is behaving itself (and the car's not in "limp home" mode) everything is likely to be fine. If ever a car needed a dirty great 'hardware reset' button on the dash, the Gallardo is it.

Having said that, in 2 years and 12000 miles I've never had an error light. Not once. But I'm sure it'll happen one day. It's almost a right of passage with a G!

On the subject of fuel levels, Alan (Ruttboy) insists you should never let the fuel level drop below a quarter tank, as this can cause the fuel system some problems depending on what the car is doing.

I won't argue with that, as keeping a decent amount of fuel in the tank is never a bad thing, but my experience is different. I was coming back from somewhere North about a year ago and was playing a bit of Petrol Station Roulette by accident. I was determined not to fill up on the M1 as I hate paying through the nose for fuel. By the time decided things were getting a bit close there weren't any fuel stops left as I came off at J28. I slowed right down to about a steady throttle 70mph, with about 30mpg showing on the level sections of dual-carriageway, dropping to 15mpg on up-hill sections.

The garage in Derby was closed, and my gauge was already on the end-stop with the on-board computer saying "0 miles". Larry was running fine but I'll admit was was VERY worried. I went another 15 miles before I found an open station (on the A38).

So, despite the fuel gauge and the computer agreeing that I was running on vapour for around 25 miles, the car was fine.

I've no wish to repeat the experience, and I'll admit that I do seem to own a freakishly good example of a Gallardo (and no, he's not for sale) but I think that I've tested the low fuel scenario satisfactorily (and fuel gauge accuracy for that matter).

Anyhoo. Get the tyres checked. Pronto.

[jke11y]

wanta996 - I think I know the car - you can tell your mate it was me who gave him a "perfect" handsign when he passed me in Kilmacolm last week (I was not in the exige, but was standing outside my house).