Okay, so exactly what battery should I put in a GT3?

[DiscoColin]

The battery in my GT3 is definately up for retirement - not even 3 years old and it will not hold enough charge to start the car beyond 4 days.

There are a plethora of battery threads all over the place, but as yet I haven't found one that will give me a straight answer as to what exactly (other than a simply stupidly overpriced ~£230 at the OPCs) I can replace it with.

I have tried Halfords and German & Sweedish - in both cases, even given the specs off of the battery and a nose in the boot they both said "this one ought to do, but it isn't on the computer so not sure". Not quite confidence inspiring, given that I have a warenty to protect?

What does everyone recommend?
[I am looking for make, model, type and where to get it from here: just "I've got a Bosch Silver" - I need to know what model to ask for].

My alternative option is to introduce myself to my local indy (JZ Machtech) and see what they say. (Though likely next week as I don't suppose they will be open tomorrow as it is Easter - anyone know)?

Otherwise, I am going to have to lube up and take a road trip to my nearest OPC. It isn't simply the ridiculous price that makes me loathe to do this, but the fact that it is for an item so weak that it will not even see a car to its first MOT. Indeed, it was good for less than a fortnight since I have had the car (just under a year) - you would expect Porsche could do better than that.

[poon]

Go and say hi to the guys at JZM, they'll fit a new Bosch Silver for you, about £100, bigger and stronger than the standard battery.

[Vesuvius 996]

poon said:

Go and say hi to the guys at JZM, they'll fit a new Bosch Silver for you, about £100, bigger and stronger than the standard battery.

Great move, then when your ECU goes bang Porsche will refuse to honour the warranty.

You're running a GT3, FFS. Why try to save a few quid for the sake of it. I hear Halfords do good multigrade oil for £1 a litre as well

[freedman]

Vesuvius 996 said:

poon said:

Go and say hi to the guys at JZM, they'll fit a new Bosch Silver for you, about £100, bigger and stronger than the standard battery.

Great move, then when your ECU goes bang Porsche will refuse to honour the warranty.

You're running a GT3, FFS. Why try to save a few quid for the sake of it. I hear Halfords do good multigrade oil for £1 a litre as well

On what basis will they be avle to refuse to honour the warranty? (this assumes the car has one in the first place)

[damianc4s]

Vesuvius 996 said:

poon said:

Go and say hi to the guys at JZM, they'll fit a new Bosch Silver for you, about £100, bigger and stronger than the standard battery.

Great move, then when your ECU goes bang Porsche will refuse to honour the warranty.

You're running a GT3, FFS. Why try to save a few quid for the sake of it. I hear Halfords do good multigrade oil for £1 a litre as well

I don't think I'll get you to do anything electrical then! Bigger and stronger doesn't equate to more volts!

[poon]

Vesuvius 996 said:

poon said:

Go and say hi to the guys at JZM, they'll fit a new Bosch Silver for you, about £100, bigger and stronger than the standard battery.

Great move, then when your ECU goes bang Porsche will refuse to honour the warranty.

You're running a GT3, FFS. Why try to save a few quid for the sake of it. I hear Halfords do good multigrade oil for £1 a litre as well

errr how can you liken a Bosch battery to Halfrauds multigrade?

its a standard battery, reportedly holds a charge longer than an OEM battery and comes recommended by JZM. How in the world will this invalidate a warranty?

[Vesuvius 996]

poon said:

Vesuvius 996 said:

poon said:

Go and say hi to the guys at JZM, they'll fit a new Bosch Silver for you, about £100, bigger and stronger than the standard battery.

Great move, then when your ECU goes bang Porsche will refuse to honour the warranty.

You're running a GT3, FFS. Why try to save a few quid for the sake of it. I hear Halfords do good multigrade oil for £1 a litre as well

errr how can you liken a Bosch battery to Halfrauds multigrade?

its a standard battery, reportedly holds a charge longer than an OEM battery and comes recommended by JZM. How in the world will this invalidate a warranty?

READ THE CONTRACT.

Use of any non OEM part invalidates the warranty.


Morally probably iffy. Legally and contractually very clear and watertight.

Edited by Vesuvius 996 on Saturday 7th April 20:14

[911wise]

Vesuvius 996 said:

poon said:

Vesuvius 996 said:

poon said:

Go and say hi to the guys at JZM, they'll fit a new Bosch Silver for you, about £100, bigger and stronger than the standard battery.

Great move, then when your ECU goes bang Porsche will refuse to honour the warranty.

You're running a GT3, FFS. Why try to save a few quid for the sake of it. I hear Halfords do good multigrade oil for £1 a litre as well

errr how can you liken a Bosch battery to Halfrauds multigrade?

its a standard battery, reportedly holds a charge longer than an OEM battery and comes recommended by JZM. How in the world will this invalidate a warranty?

READ THE CONTRACT.

Use of any non OEM part invalidates the warranty.


Morally probably iffy. Legally and contractually very clear and watertight.

Edited by Vesuvius 996 on Saturday 7th April 20:14

Want me to dig that picture of that wall out again?

[flemke]

Vesuvius 996 said:

poon said:

Vesuvius 996 said:

poon said:

Go and say hi to the guys at JZM, they'll fit a new Bosch Silver for you, about £100, bigger and stronger than the standard battery.

Great move, then when your ECU goes bang Porsche will refuse to honour the warranty.

You're running a GT3, FFS. Why try to save a few quid for the sake of it. I hear Halfords do good multigrade oil for £1 a litre as well

errr how can you liken a Bosch battery to Halfrauds multigrade?

its a standard battery, reportedly holds a charge longer than an OEM battery and comes recommended by JZM. How in the world will this invalidate a warranty?

READ THE CONTRACT.

Use of any non OEM part invalidates the warranty.


Morally probably iffy. Legally and contractually very clear and watertight.

The car appears to be more than two years old. Unless Colin has extended the original warranty, it would have expired anyhow.

[Vesuvius 996]

Flemke you are quite correct, of course.

If he doesn't have a warranty he should fill his boots with non-OEM.............

[DiscoColin]

I did indeed say that I have a warranty to protect (got it from an OPC - less than a year ago, and I do plan to renew)...

I really should have known better than to ask a direct question shouldn't I.

As I said, I have already been trawling a little about this and have learned that there are many people out there with a warranty using batteries that do not bear a Porsche label. None have admitted to having fried anything nor trouble from their OPC about it (anyone with a counter example, please feel free to share - I would really like to know the specifics).

Further to this, there is precident of dealers in the US fitting a higher capacity than stock (not OE, but made by the same firm - as part of a warrenty job funnily enough). Thus, in line with common logic, fitting a higher capacity battery should not pose a risk to the electrical system so long as it has the correct cranking current and compatible electrical specifications. Since the battery is not a warranty item, the grounds to decline a claim would revolve around whether the battery met the manufacturers specifications...

Otherwise, I am sure that there is a law somewhere in between here and the European court that they would stand a fair chance of losing a court case of restrictive trade practice against (such as why you can service at an indy and keep your warranty - even if they don't use Mobil 1, but an equivalent product from another brand).

There was also a story about someone who ended up at Halfords via Porsche assistance as the OPC didn't have a battery...

The battery in my GT3 is a Moll Kamina 560 015 048 12V 60Ah 280A item with an additional Porsche sticker. If anyone knows a supplier at less than the (>£230 ) OPC price, that would have been a start. If a higher capacity one with common electical properties, so much the better.

Seriously guys, the issue here is not simply that OPCs want four times the reasonable cost of the part - it is that they want four times and it is an inadequate part. That is why there are so many battery threads to be read out there...

I would really love one of the lurkers who work for Porsche UK (we know you are out there guys) to explain in technical terms why their rebadged Moll Kamina is worth quite so much and why an alternative premium brand item could not be trusted. But that really isn't going to happen is it, even despite the myriad of unofficial stories of 'the Porsche tech agreed that they were cack'.

So, back on topic: anyone out there not using a Porsche stickered battery in a GT3. If, so - what type/model, where did you get it, any comments and stories...

Edited by DiscoColin on Saturday 7th April 21:50

[DiscoColin]

Vesuvius 996 said:

READ THE CONTRACT.

Use of any non OEM part invalidates the warranty.

Morally probably iffy. Legally and contractually very clear and watertight.

Maybe it is just because I work in the software industry, but just because a big company puts something in a contract does not necessarily make the clause enforcible in law - spelling it out doesn't make it 'watertight'. It may be so that it would hold in this case - I don't know: you are the law person here - but I am pretty sure it isn't an absolute...

Also, wouldn't this also be interprettable as any equivalent product from the OEM that built the part (in this case, Moll Kamina) would not invalidate the warranty. If one could obtain the same part without a Porsche sticker (perhaps even one with a higher capacity) and they tried to enforce such a clause, I cannot see how they would have a leg to stand on... Anybody have a source for one in the UK?

[damianc4s]

Whilst you're at it, please ensure you only use Porsche screenwash as non-OEM could damage the washer jets, only use a Porsche windscreen as a non-Porsche one could damage your Porsche wiper blades. We could go on and on.....

[gfreeman]

Well my battery is brill. It has died on occasion but that's probably my fault as I often forget to stick the battery conditioner on it but so far so good on the resurrection front. Given a clean bill of health not so long ago by a nice man from Porsche Assist (RAC) when I also let my power pack die as well and needed a jump start.

It is a Banner 12v 71Ah - in the car when I bought her. And it has been through the OPC 111 point check and given a warranty as well. Original? Haven't a clue. OPC never mentioned it when taking my money.

[flemke]

What you tend to find in these situations is that the main dealer or manufacturer says that an independent part may invalidate the warranty, not that it must do.
They insert these clauses to protect themselves in the case of someone's doing something to a car that actually does damage to the original parts, which has occured many times.
Otherwise they could charge a grand for a battery, and you'd be forced to pay the price.

[slippydiff]

When my battery finally gives up the ghost (currently on life support in the shape of a Halfrauds conditioner)
I shall be putting one of these on.
www.optimabattery.co.uk/
Woe betide any OPC that tells me it'll invalidate my warranty.

[Vesuvius 996]

DiscoColin said:

Vesuvius 996 said:

READ THE CONTRACT.

Use of any non OEM part invalidates the warranty.

Morally probably iffy. Legally and contractually very clear and watertight.

Maybe it is just because I work in the software industry, but just because a big company puts something in a contract does not necessarily make the clause enforcible in law - spelling it out doesn't make it 'watertight'. It may be so that it would hold in this case - I don't know: you are the law person here - but I am pretty sure it isn't an absolute...

Also, wouldn't this also be interprettable as any equivalent product from the OEM that built the part (in this case, Moll Kamina) would not invalidate the warranty. If one could obtain the same part without a Porsche sticker (perhaps even one with a higher capacity) and they tried to enforce such a clause, I cannot see how they would have a leg to stand on... Anybody have a source for one in the UK?

Ok then. I bow to your superior knowledge of law and practice, I'll let you off the spelling of "enforceable.".........." Six years of training and thirteen years of practice are obviously no match for a man with a copy of "Contract Law In A Nutshell........."

For what it's worth.......

(a) Just because a part is "the same" doesn't mean it's OEM. Witness N rated tyres, which may well be the "same" as non N rated, but they are NOT N rated unless they have the N rating stamped on them. Again, not necessarily fair, but true.

(b) If Porsche refuse your warranty claim for any reason, no matter how spurious in your view, YOU have sue THEM. So YOU have to show that YOU have a leg to stand on - they don't have to prove JACK SH1T........ So good luck, they are the ones with 100 lawyers and a billion quid in the Bank. Good luck indeed...........

Look, I'll shut the hell up about this as my advice is clearly not welcome, but I'll continue to be a little over cautious and protect my position. If you've got enough cash to buy and run a GT3, why the hell put yourself in weak position for the cost of a curry and few beers?

As I said, I wil shut up. Good luck with it.

Edited by Vesuvius 996 on Saturday 7th April 23:15

[BLKROKT]

I threw in an Optima red top and haven't looked back since. It keeps a charge like no other battery, whereas my stocker would die if I left the car to sit for a couple weeks. In fact, when I **had my car in for warranty work a couple weeks ago**, the head tech said something like "cool, that's what they put in rally cars". Didn't blink twice about honoring my warranty claim when they saw it (along with a few other "adjustments"

[DanH]

I plan to get an optima battery at some point now that I keep the car on a conditioner. Only thing stopping me was that the smaller lighter ones won't hold a charge nearly as long, oh and you probably need to build a special mounting plate to hold it. Suspect someone on rennlist will sell them though.

As to the warranty issue, if you use a decent quality part I can't see there being a problem with the car being warranteed unless the part actually causes a problem. In the same way they can't void the warranty on your paintwork because you fitted an aftermarket exhaust. If the part you choose to use does damage your car though, then sure, they have every right to offer nothing but their sympathy.

[DiscoColin]

Vesuvius 996 said:

DiscoColin said:

Vesuvius 996 said:

READ THE CONTRACT...

{Observation on the difference between contracts and enforcibility without a spell checker}

Ok then. I bow to your superior knowledge of law and practice...
{spent a lot of time learning considerably more about law practice than me}

(a) Just because a part is "the same" doesn't mean it's OEM. Witness N rated tyres, which may well be the "same" as non N rated, but they are NOT N rated unless they have the N rating stamped on them. Again, not necessarily fair, but true.

Not the same analogy actually. The analogy I posed in that point would be that a Michelin PS2 295 R18 N2 - same product, same specs, same production line - bought from Black Circles or Costco would be equivalent from a warranty perspective as one bought from an OPC, if only they put a little Porsche sticker on it to make it Porsche-ified...

Non N-rated tyres are most certainly not the same as N-rated ones - compound and construction are different, as you are surely aware.

As analogies go, this is more like 'can you put a Skoda suspension arm on an Audi'. Both are the same part, made to the same specifications by VAG themselves and put in a different box with a different price.

Vesuvius 996 said:

(b) If Porsche refuse your warranty claim for any reason, no matter how spurious in your view, YOU have sue THEM. So YOU have to show that YOU have a leg to stand on - they don't have to prove JACK SH1T........ So good luck, they are the ones with 100 lawyers and a billion quid in the Bank. Good luck indeed...........

Look, I'll shut the hell up about this as my advice is clearly not welcome,

On the contrary, your advice and opinion most certainly is welcome. You post a fair amount here and whether I agree with it or not it is always at least worth reading and considering. I certainly do not profess to have a fraction of your legal expertise, and I appreciate your entirely correct position on proof of liability not resting with Porsche.

The point that I was failing to get across is that in my line of work, legalese is routinely more an exercise in brinkmanship rather than actual law. Anyone who has ever actually read a EULA will understand that (or if you don't, imagine that you are sitting in China or better still, North Korea {whos laws are somewhat different} when you install some software). If you thought that I was trying to argue a legal position from a basis of superior understanding, then apologies to you are certainly in order as that certainly wasn't where I was heading. I was just making the point - not saying that your postiion was in any way unwise. Just that for every sweeping generalisation there is usually a counter-example

Vesuvius 996 said:

but I'll continue to be a little over cautious and protect my position. If you've got enough cash to buy and run a GT3, why the hell put yourself in weak position for the cost of a curry and few beers?

As I said, I wil shut up. Good luck with it.

Buying and running a GT3 implies less cash than you think these days - you probably have far more than I. It isn't the actual cost that I have an issue with, it is that my not-so-affluent background has instilled in me a natural aversion to having people take the piss simply because they {think they} can. If it were 100% markup I wouldn't have blinked, but 400% for a poor product (and we are talking at least 50% worst than Halfords own brand in my last beamer) with a 30-40 mile round trip (on less than fun driving roads) to a less than overly impressive franchise (80 miles for a better OPC) which I won't have time to do when they are actually open for at least a fortnight does pose food for thought. Especially when the first thing you do is look it up and read a number of 'these things are useless - I got an X' messages with practically nobody prepared to make any substantive counter argument.

So I asked the question, and not one response on this thread actually tried to answer the question that I asked. Frustrating, but I have been reading here long enought to know better, so that is doubtless my fault too.