Officially up for sale
Discussion
stigmundfreud said:
without headers?
on a cv8?
390 bhp from exhaust and upgraded maf?
without headers? and no other mods? Is that with replacement high flow cats? With headers or without? 390 bhp from exhaust, remap and a maf?
I'd love to see the dyno print for that one
on a cv8?
390 bhp from exhaust and upgraded maf?
without headers? and no other mods? Is that with replacement high flow cats? With headers or without? 390 bhp from exhaust, remap and a maf?
I'd love to see the dyno print for that one
Yup
I spent some time talking with Paul Spinks (Mr Wortec) at Bedford in 2005 and he reckoned that the engines get that reliably and regularly after a re-map, catbacks, cai & maf.
Based on experience I have no reason to disbelieve him although my own car hasn't been dynoe'd.
based on experience anything after the fluffy oem settings would feel like 200+ bhp
I am talking from experience here after having the car tuned with headers, high flow cats and the full exhaust and I get 385 crank figures, will need to look at the actual print out for the real wheel figures. Tahts with just under 400ft/lb too
now I do beleive the wortec stuff works, no doubt, but I fail to understand why people go "I've had it chipped its now xxx bhp" without actually having any proof of that fact other than the manufacturers quoted figures. I have no reason to disbelieve wortec figures on their mule cars perhaps but what I would like to see is the dyno print to say a simple exhaust and remap gets an extra 60bhp
Remember we are not corsa or nova owners here, a filter doesnt add 15bhp etc and I know that my car was on the rollers at lsv for quite some time and I know it was given a good tune but quite conservative at the same time.
I simply fail to believe 100% that a cat back and a remap can put out the same as a full front to back system with a retune.
Its one thing to quote a quoted figure but I know if asked I can say I know what my car is making and can then provided a nice little print out that even colaborates it.
I am talking from experience here after having the car tuned with headers, high flow cats and the full exhaust and I get 385 crank figures, will need to look at the actual print out for the real wheel figures. Tahts with just under 400ft/lb too
now I do beleive the wortec stuff works, no doubt, but I fail to understand why people go "I've had it chipped its now xxx bhp" without actually having any proof of that fact other than the manufacturers quoted figures. I have no reason to disbelieve wortec figures on their mule cars perhaps but what I would like to see is the dyno print to say a simple exhaust and remap gets an extra 60bhp
Remember we are not corsa or nova owners here, a filter doesnt add 15bhp etc and I know that my car was on the rollers at lsv for quite some time and I know it was given a good tune but quite conservative at the same time.
I simply fail to believe 100% that a cat back and a remap can put out the same as a full front to back system with a retune.
Its one thing to quote a quoted figure but I know if asked I can say I know what my car is making and can then provided a nice little print out that even colaborates it.
the figure quoted is supposed to be the flywheel which we already know is nothing more than a guess. My 04 cv8 with exhaust, remap, larger throttle body, mafless and K&N filter hasn't made anything like 390 according to the rolling roads I've had done - the highest they've given me was 375bhp, at the same time a Wortec exhaust and remapped 06 cv8 was tested at 367bhp or so when it had been supplied as a 410bhp car. It was discussed at the time and from the rear wheel figures 335 and 330 iirc the claim then was that you need to add at least 80 on for losses - 50 for transmission and 30 for wheels - giving a guestimate of over 410bhp flywheel way more than the rolling road was suggesting.
My point - getting there eventually is that his figure of 390bhp is possibly quite accurate and it may indeed make that on an engine dyno. I would however be wary of selling a vehicle quoting such figures as anyone putting the car on a dyno to check it will likely be disappointed with the readings. Would certainly be a far safer bet to have the car on a rolling road and measure the rwhp and use that if you wish to quote figures in adverts but very few people do so, most rely on the "higher" flywheel figure to improve chances of a sale. I certainly wouldn't criticise Jackel for doing the same as most other sellers would in his place and quote the higher figure that he has been given. After all if its good enough for Vauxhall when selling the cars new it should be good enough for us when we sell them on.
My point - getting there eventually is that his figure of 390bhp is possibly quite accurate and it may indeed make that on an engine dyno. I would however be wary of selling a vehicle quoting such figures as anyone putting the car on a dyno to check it will likely be disappointed with the readings. Would certainly be a far safer bet to have the car on a rolling road and measure the rwhp and use that if you wish to quote figures in adverts but very few people do so, most rely on the "higher" flywheel figure to improve chances of a sale. I certainly wouldn't criticise Jackel for doing the same as most other sellers would in his place and quote the higher figure that he has been given. After all if its good enough for Vauxhall when selling the cars new it should be good enough for us when we sell them on.
Oh I fully agree that the crank figure is pretty much a clutch at straws figure but I've seen quotes of 420bhp for headers and exhaust I fail to see a 40bhp discrepency between a plug and play upgrade and a sit on the dyno and work to get the tune specific figure.
I wasnt even having a go at the OP just originally a poke the tongue out question about the figures as I seriously do disbelieve on an 04 cv8 that stocks at 333bhp that an exhaust and a map makes 57bhp.
I also think that 15000 quid is way under value and certaily at that price is for a quick sale?
btw the dyno run was 312rwhp and its been on the same place each time for a good upgrade graph. Its been 2nd checked at the surrey rolling road too and I know its a black art but the figures match up. Like you say though, if I bought a car and it was advertised at a set bhp I would kick up merry shit with the dealer if it came nowhere near that figure.
I wasnt even having a go at the OP just originally a poke the tongue out question about the figures as I seriously do disbelieve on an 04 cv8 that stocks at 333bhp that an exhaust and a map makes 57bhp.
I also think that 15000 quid is way under value and certaily at that price is for a quick sale?
btw the dyno run was 312rwhp and its been on the same place each time for a good upgrade graph. Its been 2nd checked at the surrey rolling road too and I know its a black art but the figures match up. Like you say though, if I bought a car and it was advertised at a set bhp I would kick up merry shit with the dealer if it came nowhere near that figure.
Its always the same old quote,makes x now I have done this.
Only way and definitive proof is dyno before you spend your money,ask what tune/mod/conversion will produce and then return to your dyno company following mods!! and re test.Then you can see and quote your befores and afters.I just fail to understand why some guys quote after figures with no proof of befores or afters,just going on verbal statements of what it should make.Oh,and the sun is still shining here!!!!
Only way and definitive proof is dyno before you spend your money,ask what tune/mod/conversion will produce and then return to your dyno company following mods!! and re test.Then you can see and quote your befores and afters.I just fail to understand why some guys quote after figures with no proof of befores or afters,just going on verbal statements of what it should make.Oh,and the sun is still shining here!!!!
OZ and US guys always quote rwhp so I ignore fwhp numbers.
There are mag articles showing stock ls1's put out over 400fwhp anyway. Just depends on what accessories etc you want to measure it with.
Most guys here quote both numbers so its easy to see things more clearly. WRC were keen on using rwhp numbers at one point.
More rwhp number required!
There are mag articles showing stock ls1's put out over 400fwhp anyway. Just depends on what accessories etc you want to measure it with.
Most guys here quote both numbers so its easy to see things more clearly. WRC were keen on using rwhp numbers at one point.
More rwhp number required!
Ok - Sorry for the confusion
Standard BHP for a CV8 is 333 bhp
Wortec Sports Pac adds approximately 60 BHP so around 390 BHP is the advertised figure
Unless i'm completely wrong of course
Didn't see the point in adding about the other bits the sports pac offers (remap etc) as the Wortec web site details this
Standard BHP for a CV8 is 333 bhp
Wortec Sports Pac adds approximately 60 BHP so around 390 BHP is the advertised figure
Unless i'm completely wrong of course
Didn't see the point in adding about the other bits the sports pac offers (remap etc) as the Wortec web site details this
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