Is this a 'trap'
Discussion
A friend of mine is in the following situation....
He received a NIP for 90 in a 50 a few weeks ago. This he believes is correct.
He seeked advice and has been in contact with a motoring lawyer, their advice was to do nothing... and eventually he would be receive summons for 'failing to furnish' rather than the alleged speeding.
About 2 weeks after the 28 days to reply ran out on the NIP he received a reminder for the NIP. Again he consulted his lawyer who advised to 'do nothing'....
About 3 weeks have passed since then...
and now... over the weekend he received a letter from the Police.
This letter has the title of... CONDITIONAL OFFER FIXED PENALTY NUMBER Cxxxxxxxxx
The letter says " I refer to the above Conditional Offer Fixed Penalty that has been sent to you and my recent reminder letter.
I note from my records that to date we have received no communication from you with regards to this matter.
I must now inform you that the file will be sent for the consideration of summons action after 14 days from the date of this letter and no further correspondence will be sent from this office"
2 identical copies of this letter were sent to my friends address.
He has spoken to his lawyers who again have said 'do nothing' although did say that this is not something they were expecting to see....
Important note: NO conditional offer was ever received in the post by my friend!
As my friend has kept silent how can they offer a fixed penalty if they do not know he was the driver???
Is this a Police tactic for him to request the 'offer' and in tern incriminating himself...????
Is it possible to request the 'offer' without incriminating himself????
This offence has no connection to myself, and IS actually a friend of mine...
Any help?
Thanks
I would think that it's just a standard letter they send out usually after the car owner has been asking for photos/trying to discuss the legal aspects of the case but has not confirmed the driver within the time limit.
I predict a summons in the post for BOTH failing to supply the name of the driver AND the speeding offence. He can't get done for both so he'll have to bargain for one or the other to be dropped as long as he admits to one or the other.
If he coughs to the failing to name= 3 points, large fine and an MS90 on his licence which will double his insurance at renewal... and maybe for years to come.
If he coughs to the speeding= definite ban of up to 56 days (unless he can prove that he'll lose his job), large fine, no points (i think?) and maybe a 20% loading on his insurance.
Either way he's fecked... it's just a case of deciding which way he want's to get fecked.
I predict a summons in the post for BOTH failing to supply the name of the driver AND the speeding offence. He can't get done for both so he'll have to bargain for one or the other to be dropped as long as he admits to one or the other.
If he coughs to the failing to name= 3 points, large fine and an MS90 on his licence which will double his insurance at renewal... and maybe for years to come.
If he coughs to the speeding= definite ban of up to 56 days (unless he can prove that he'll lose his job), large fine, no points (i think?) and maybe a 20% loading on his insurance.
Either way he's fecked... it's just a case of deciding which way he want's to get fecked.
blueyes said:
I would think that it's just a standard letter they send out usually after the car owner has been asking for photos/trying to discuss the legal aspects of the case but has not confirmed the driver within the time limit.
I predict a summons in the post for BOTH failing to supply the name of the driver AND the speeding offence. He can't get done for both so he'll have to bargain for one or the other to be dropped as long as he admits to one or the other.
If he coughs to the failing to name= 3 points, large fine and an MS90 on his licence which will double his insurance at renewal... and maybe for years to come.
If he coughs to the speeding= definite ban of up to 56 days (unless he can prove that he'll lose his job), large fine, no points (i think?) and maybe a 20% loading on his insurance.
Either way he's fecked... it's just a case of deciding which way he want's to get fecked.
I predict a summons in the post for BOTH failing to supply the name of the driver AND the speeding offence. He can't get done for both so he'll have to bargain for one or the other to be dropped as long as he admits to one or the other.
If he coughs to the failing to name= 3 points, large fine and an MS90 on his licence which will double his insurance at renewal... and maybe for years to come.
If he coughs to the speeding= definite ban of up to 56 days (unless he can prove that he'll lose his job), large fine, no points (i think?) and maybe a 20% loading on his insurance.
Either way he's fecked... it's just a case of deciding which way he want's to get fecked.
Totally agree.
All he has to do is decide pink or brown. Sorry.
Rochester BMW said:
Thanks for the advice.
So why has he not received the conditional offer then????
Is it a scare tactic...?
Can he request to see the conditional offer anyway?
Can you ever get a ban from a conditional offer received through the post? or do you have to go to court to receive a ban?
So why has he not received the conditional offer then????
Is it a scare tactic...?
Can he request to see the conditional offer anyway?
Can you ever get a ban from a conditional offer received through the post? or do you have to go to court to receive a ban?
You get a summons to attend court when a ban is being considered.
Vesuvius 996 said:
Rochester BMW said:
Thanks for the advice.
So why has he not received the conditional offer then????
Is it a scare tactic...?
Can he request to see the conditional offer anyway?
Can you ever get a ban from a conditional offer received through the post? or do you have to go to court to receive a ban?
So why has he not received the conditional offer then????
Is it a scare tactic...?
Can he request to see the conditional offer anyway?
Can you ever get a ban from a conditional offer received through the post? or do you have to go to court to receive a ban?
You get a summons to attend court when a ban is being considered.
So....
If he requested to see a copy of the conditional offer... he will know a few things of what to expect...
1. As its a fixed penalty through the post, it cannot be a ban....
2. The conditional offer will more than likely be for the speeding rather than failing to furnish so he will not get an MS90....
How can he get hold of a copy of this conditional offer without incriminating himself?
dazren said:
There will have been no offer of a conditional offer due to the margin by which the vehicle was breaking the speed limit. They wanted the name of the driver to issue the court summons.
Really?!
So you dont think that the 'conditional offer fixed penalty' actually exists??? It was just a ploy to get his name so they can issue the summons???
Thats cheeky!
Rochester BMW said:
dazren said:
There will have been no offer of a conditional offer due to the margin by which the vehicle was breaking the speed limit. They wanted the name of the driver to issue the court summons.
Really?!
So you dont think that the 'conditional offer fixed penalty' actually exists??? It was just a ploy to get his name so they can issue the summons???
Thats cheeky!
Yes, they will say "Oh sorry our mistake, here is your summons"
toni896 said:
Rochester BMW said:
dazren said:
There will have been no offer of a conditional offer due to the margin by which the vehicle was breaking the speed limit. They wanted the name of the driver to issue the court summons.
Really?!
So you don't think that the 'conditional offer fixed penalty' actually exists??? It was just a ploy to get his name so they can issue the summons???
That's cheeky!
Yes, they will say "Oh sorry our mistake, here is your summons"
but is it not possible to get them to issue this 'conditional offer' without my friend giving his details?
They know he is the registered keeper of the car... but they don't know if he was the driver...
I imagine if he accepted a 'conditional offer' then he is obviously admitting to the speeding fine so they could then take him to court. BUT if he accepts the 'conditional offer' how could they take him to court as the case would be over...?
Also once in court, wont the police have to show what this conditional offer is? and wont my friend have the opportunity to take it then once in court or will that be too late?
Ideally he needs to somehow get a copy of this 'conditional offer' without incriminating himself, and then accept the offer before they can summons him for the offence, as I guess after an offer is accepted he couldn't be summonsed?
mcflurry said:
An MS90 will put up your insurance by 33%
90% of us speed, sometimes you get caught.
Your friend did the "crime", imho it's up to him to accept responsibility for his actions, or be prepared to take on the system.
90% of us speed, sometimes you get caught.
Your friend did the "crime", imho it's up to him to accept responsibility for his actions, or be prepared to take on the system.
I never speed... my friend on the other hand... tut tut tut!
I think 'Damage Limitation' is the correct way of putting it.. its not that he is sneekily trying to get away with it.. he's been given advice from solicitors to go down this route, and now he's wondering if he's made things worse for himself and the only way out is to get the solicitors to fight his battle leaving him with a hefty bill...
toni896 said:
I think if they have had no response, thats all they are looking for at the moment.
once they get a response things will change.
I would think they will issue a failing to furnish soon.
6 points isn't it now versa a ban.
once they get a response things will change.
I would think they will issue a failing to furnish soon.
6 points isn't it now versa a ban.
how do you mean 'change'?
So if my friend continue's down the route of 'failing to furnish'
his likely sentence would be....????
6 points
MS90 on licence
33% insurance increase
NO ban
Fine of £???
vs. (admitting to the offence)
56 day BAN
SP30 or 60
20% insurance increase
NO points
Fine of £???
by change I only mean whisked off to court.
at the moment they seem to be giving your friend the chance to name and shame someone.
MS90 will be a certain for not naming, a ban is TS99 from memory.
try an insurace quote with both to be sure.
for sentencing there doesn't seem to be a specific fine isn't it still means tested ?
at the moment they seem to be giving your friend the chance to name and shame someone.
MS90 will be a certain for not naming, a ban is TS99 from memory.
try an insurace quote with both to be sure.
for sentencing there doesn't seem to be a specific fine isn't it still means tested ?
mcflurry said:
or SP decoration, no ban, larger fine, and minimal increase to next years insurance premium 
ish
(SPxx = 10% increase with Direct Line, or 0% with a decent insurer)
ish (SPxx = 10% increase with Direct Line, or 0% with a decent insurer)
but all of these options are just.... possibilities... he will only get what the court gives him...
or do the courts offer a few options to choose from???
Rochester BMW said:
mcflurry said:
or SP decoration, no ban, larger fine, and minimal increase to next years insurance premium ish
(SPxx = 10% increase with Direct Line, or 0% with a decent insurer)
ish (SPxx = 10% increase with Direct Line, or 0% with a decent insurer)
but all of these options are just.... possibilities... he will only get what the court gives him...
or do the courts offer a few options to choose from???
you get what the court gives, there are no option.
you can plead mitigation or hardship to get reduced sentencing but not i'll take a large fine no points/ban option.
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