My ideal format for the F1 cars...
Discussion
It's only my opinion and of course subject to ridicul, but I would love to see the F1 rules for cars as follows:
A return to slick tyres to enable the engineers to claw back mechanical grip over a dramatic reduction in aero grip (see below)
Ban refueling so that all cars start the same weight on the grid, none of this where you can't judge a cars performance against another due to teams running different fuel strategies.
Keep pitstops but only for tyre changes, and we'll get back to those stunning late 80's when pitstops were being turned around in 3-4 secs and where the team could make or break a race, Mclaren were masters of the quick turn around and it would leave me speachless at their skills (where as these days they can stroll through a stop due to so much time taken of refueling!!)
Ban all winglets across the cars, but allow rear and front wings to remain, but with only one solid wing element, and clean vertical end plates.
Remove the plank from below the cars and return to flat bottomed cars.
Ban the rear defuser as this has now become a vital part in keeping areo downforce critical to the cars performance.
We are already seeing the driver aids banned from 2008, but we should go further by banning paddle shift and making the driver change with a gear stick again. Happy to keep auto boxes, but the need to remove hand from steering wheel makes it slightly more interesting for the driver and adds another chance of driver error.
Make all brake pads from steel and smaller than today to increase breaking distance and offer better chance of overtaking for the very brave
I would also like to see a restriction on the amount of fuel with it being reduced by say 5% each season, to make the designers and engineers come up with more fuel efficient engines.
To spice up the racing and make those further down the field fight for places, and in the process encourage more overtaking we should introduce points for all race finishers as follows:
1st: 30
2nd: 26
3rd: 24
4th: 22
5th: 20
6th: 18
7th: 16
8th: 15
9th: 14
10th: 13
11th: 12
12th: 11
13th: 10
14th: 9
15th: 8
16th: 7
17th: 6
18th: 5
19th: 4
20th: 3
21st: 2
22nd: 1
Constructors only get points for first 6 places though.
1 point for pole, and 1 point for fastest race lap.
Just a thought...
A return to slick tyres to enable the engineers to claw back mechanical grip over a dramatic reduction in aero grip (see below)
Ban refueling so that all cars start the same weight on the grid, none of this where you can't judge a cars performance against another due to teams running different fuel strategies.
Keep pitstops but only for tyre changes, and we'll get back to those stunning late 80's when pitstops were being turned around in 3-4 secs and where the team could make or break a race, Mclaren were masters of the quick turn around and it would leave me speachless at their skills (where as these days they can stroll through a stop due to so much time taken of refueling!!)
Ban all winglets across the cars, but allow rear and front wings to remain, but with only one solid wing element, and clean vertical end plates.
Remove the plank from below the cars and return to flat bottomed cars.
Ban the rear defuser as this has now become a vital part in keeping areo downforce critical to the cars performance.
We are already seeing the driver aids banned from 2008, but we should go further by banning paddle shift and making the driver change with a gear stick again. Happy to keep auto boxes, but the need to remove hand from steering wheel makes it slightly more interesting for the driver and adds another chance of driver error.
Make all brake pads from steel and smaller than today to increase breaking distance and offer better chance of overtaking for the very brave
I would also like to see a restriction on the amount of fuel with it being reduced by say 5% each season, to make the designers and engineers come up with more fuel efficient engines.
To spice up the racing and make those further down the field fight for places, and in the process encourage more overtaking we should introduce points for all race finishers as follows:
1st: 30
2nd: 26
3rd: 24
4th: 22
5th: 20
6th: 18
7th: 16
8th: 15
9th: 14
10th: 13
11th: 12
12th: 11
13th: 10
14th: 9
15th: 8
16th: 7
17th: 6
18th: 5
19th: 4
20th: 3
21st: 2
22nd: 1
Constructors only get points for first 6 places though.
1 point for pole, and 1 point for fastest race lap.
Just a thought...
Some of those ideas I like, some I don't.
Why on one hand would you improve underbody aerodynamic efficiency by removing the plank, but on the other worsen it by banning diffusers?
Also, your proposed points system is bad. Do we really want to place more value upon two seventh places than one win and one retirement?
Why on one hand would you improve underbody aerodynamic efficiency by removing the plank, but on the other worsen it by banning diffusers?
Also, your proposed points system is bad. Do we really want to place more value upon two seventh places than one win and one retirement?
If you want to see more overtaking you'll have to retain the diffuser and probably make it bigger, as diffusers create far less dirty air than wings.
If it were me, I'd introduce yaw sensors and active wings, so that the car would react to the understeer created when attempting to follow another by either reducing the rear downforce or increasing the front.
They'd never allow it though...
If it were me, I'd introduce yaw sensors and active wings, so that the car would react to the understeer created when attempting to follow another by either reducing the rear downforce or increasing the front.
They'd never allow it though...
ahonen said:
If it were me, I'd introduce yaw sensors and active wings, so that the car would react to the understeer created when attempting to follow another by either reducing the rear downforce or increasing the front.
They'd never allow it though...
They'd never allow it though...
Surely such a system would react as you suggest not only when in 'dirty air' but at all times?
I would:
Raise engine capacity from 2.4l to 2.8l V8 with no rev limit.
Engines only need to last the weekend.
Allow full slick tyres.
Get rid of the wooden plank under the car.
Ban traction control.
Get rid of that stupid rule requiring teams to use each of the two types of dry tyre.
Lights inside the cockpit to warn drivers of flags being shown on parts of the circuit (planned for 2009 anyway).
Rear view camera inside the car so drivers can see behind them better.
Keep qualifying format but remove any link to fuel for the race (to stop the pointless bit in the final qualifying session where the drivers just do as many laps as possible to get fuel back).
1st place gets 12 points instead of 10.
And the most important change:
Equip the cars with a very limited supply of nitrous (that cannot be refuelled) to be used to aid overtaking a la the fast and the furious. Maybe enough for 4 or 5 sustained bursts during the race. A blue light on the back of the car will light up when a driver uses it.
Raise engine capacity from 2.4l to 2.8l V8 with no rev limit.
Engines only need to last the weekend.
Allow full slick tyres.
Get rid of the wooden plank under the car.
Ban traction control.
Get rid of that stupid rule requiring teams to use each of the two types of dry tyre.
Lights inside the cockpit to warn drivers of flags being shown on parts of the circuit (planned for 2009 anyway).
Rear view camera inside the car so drivers can see behind them better.
Keep qualifying format but remove any link to fuel for the race (to stop the pointless bit in the final qualifying session where the drivers just do as many laps as possible to get fuel back).
1st place gets 12 points instead of 10.
And the most important change:
Equip the cars with a very limited supply of nitrous (that cannot be refuelled) to be used to aid overtaking a la the fast and the furious. Maybe enough for 4 or 5 sustained bursts during the race. A blue light on the back of the car will light up when a driver uses it.
Edited by excupra on Wednesday 11th April 12:15
SamHH said:
ahonen said:
If it were me, I'd introduce yaw sensors and active wings, so that the car would react to the understeer created when attempting to follow another by either reducing the rear downforce or increasing the front.
They'd never allow it though...
They'd never allow it though...
Surely such a system would react as you suggest not only when in 'dirty air' but at all times?
Maybe...
I'd love to see something like that in action though.
sdw2003 said:
Make all brake pads from steel and smaller than today to increase breaking distance and offer better chance of overtaking for the very brave
A car's braking distance is down to the amount of grip between the tyre and the road surface - this is exaggerated by the high downforce you get in F1. Braking ability is no better with carbon than with iron, as demonstrated when D Hill did a back-to-back test in a Williams comparing both materials, resulting in almost identical lap times. The benefit of carbon is that it operates better at higher temperatures, and also reduces unsprung weight.
Eric Mc said:
Sounds like a return to 1983 actually.
Do some Youtubing" for 1983 F1 and see if you like the way the cars behave.
Do some Youtubing" for 1983 F1 and see if you like the way the cars behave.
Hell yes!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=QXL39KQtaA
Now there's some skilled driving
I like your ideas for returning the cars to a simpler state in the main. You don't mention it, but I take it as read that driver and team safety must remain paramount, e.g. keep HANS and 50mph pit limits.
Efforts to alter the rules to return the cars to the spectacular days (before I was born I must add) of the Lotus 72 and co .... sideways!
Does this stop being formula 1 then? F1 has to be the pinicle and fastest formula IMO.
Totally disagree with the points thing. It's a good suggestion, but would make historical records a bit of a nonsense - This has already partly happened in recent years with the ever increasing number of rounds leading to arguably lesser drivers being more successful on paper than legends of yesteryear.
Efforts to alter the rules to return the cars to the spectacular days (before I was born I must add
) of the Lotus 72 and co .... sideways! Does this stop being formula 1 then? F1 has to be the pinicle and fastest formula IMO.
Totally disagree with the points thing. It's a good suggestion, but would make historical records a bit of a nonsense - This has already partly happened in recent years with the ever increasing number of rounds leading to arguably lesser drivers being more successful on paper than legends of yesteryear.
Of course safety is very important, but as it says on every ticket you buy to watch a race - motor sport is dangerous and that level of danger should never be taken away.
As to the points issue, some would say who cares about which driver has this amount of points against another driver. If you really want to compare like for like, you need to work in %'s based on number of races entered, because the points system has changed already from when I used to watch in the 70-80's.
Despite the reference to Fast and Furious, I actually like the nitro boost idea. Keeping it limited to the number of uses per race, that could be fun, but surely if we allow cars to drive right up the ass of another, you achieve the same thing with slip stream don't you?
As to the points issue, some would say who cares about which driver has this amount of points against another driver. If you really want to compare like for like, you need to work in %'s based on number of races entered, because the points system has changed already from when I used to watch in the 70-80's.
Despite the reference to Fast and Furious, I actually like the nitro boost idea. Keeping it limited to the number of uses per race, that could be fun, but surely if we allow cars to drive right up the ass of another, you achieve the same thing with slip stream don't you?
This is what racing should be like...
This was not the first few laps, this is the very last lap of a race - fantastic stuff.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=oYPnsWOtm1
This was not the first few laps, this is the very last lap of a race - fantastic stuff.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=oYPnsWOtm1
- get rid of the winglets to allow cars to get closer to each other, keep the front and rear wings the same (happening in 09, apparently)
- ban wind tunnels (just read an excellent column in Autosport explaining why)
- no traction control (happening)
- on board starter motors
- 3.0 turbo V8s, run on bioethanol for more power, (something like that happening in 2010)
- slicks (happening in 09)
- engines only have to last three races.
- expand calendar to ~30 races.
- timed race format instead of a number of laps (like alms and champ car)
- no refuelling
- only 1 person per wheel can change tyres and hydraulic jacks like in champ car
- points for the top ten finishers with a large margin for 1st
- 1 point for pole, fastest lap and fastest pit stop.
...and apart from that its fine!
- ban wind tunnels (just read an excellent column in Autosport explaining why)
- no traction control (happening)
- on board starter motors
- 3.0 turbo V8s, run on bioethanol for more power, (something like that happening in 2010)
- slicks (happening in 09)
- engines only have to last three races.
- expand calendar to ~30 races.
- timed race format instead of a number of laps (like alms and champ car)
- no refuelling
- only 1 person per wheel can change tyres and hydraulic jacks like in champ car
- points for the top ten finishers with a large margin for 1st
- 1 point for pole, fastest lap and fastest pit stop.
...and apart from that its fine!
Edited by johnph on Thursday 12th April 13:13
i'd like the cars to have the best bits on them from the history of F1, that is , so long as it has raced before it can be fitted..
so i'd have the aero of a 2007 car but with the wings from a 1985 car, i'd have the engine out of the 1986 benetton, the tyres from the 1977 season, the gizmo's from 1993, incl active ride and fully auto transmission, the seamless shift from last year, the brabham fan car rear fan thing of 1978, the diffuser from 1988, the wider track (suspension) from 1995.... should be a bloody fast car with all that lot on it... and then i'd want to have it developed with todays technology so that the engine for example will produce 1500hp in race trim..
sub 1 min lap of silverstone gp anyone...?
so i'd have the aero of a 2007 car but with the wings from a 1985 car, i'd have the engine out of the 1986 benetton, the tyres from the 1977 season, the gizmo's from 1993, incl active ride and fully auto transmission, the seamless shift from last year, the brabham fan car rear fan thing of 1978, the diffuser from 1988, the wider track (suspension) from 1995.... should be a bloody fast car with all that lot on it... and then i'd want to have it developed with todays technology so that the engine for example will produce 1500hp in race trim..
sub 1 min lap of silverstone gp anyone...?
Bit of a quandry - F1 is meant to be about cutting edge technology, but that same technology is what has made the racing boring.
For example, electronic stability control. It wrecks F1 and turns even average drivers into competitive ones, but is probably one of the better safety developments you can ask for on modern cars when so many people can buy and drive cars way above their ability.
For example, electronic stability control. It wrecks F1 and turns even average drivers into competitive ones, but is probably one of the better safety developments you can ask for on modern cars when so many people can buy and drive cars way above their ability.
Any changes that can help bring about races like Monaco 1992 would be more than welcome.
3 legends, well 2 driving and one comentating. A combination that beats modern F1 hands down.
Drivers, cars and comentery was much better then. Stop the cock!!! and tempt Murry out of retirement, lol
Enjoy,
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpzFjOwcy1w&NR=1
3 legends, well 2 driving and one comentating. A combination that beats modern F1 hands down.
Drivers, cars and comentery was much better then. Stop the cock!!! and tempt Murry out of retirement, lol
Enjoy,
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpzFjOwcy1w&NR=1
homer3uk said:
Any changes that can help bring about races like Monaco 1992 would be more than welcome.
3 legends, well 2 driving and one comentating. A combination that beats modern F1 hands down.
Drivers, cars and comentery was much better then. Stop the cock!!! and tempt Murry out of retirement, lol
Enjoy,
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpzFjOwcy1w&NR=1
3 legends, well 2 driving and one comentating. A combination that beats modern F1 hands down.
Drivers, cars and comentery was much better then. Stop the cock!!! and tempt Murry out of retirement, lol
Enjoy,
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpzFjOwcy1w&NR=1
I've been following F1 only since the end of 1997 so I don't know what the races were like in the 1980s and early to mid 90s. However, it seems that whenever these 'golden years' are mentioned the same dozen or so film clips are trotted out.
Why is this? Is it just that these were the only ones that were caught on camera?
I don't deny that modern races can be boring but were things really that much better in the past?
SamHH said:
homer3uk said:
Any changes that can help bring about races like Monaco 1992 would be more than welcome.
3 legends, well 2 driving and one comentating. A combination that beats modern F1 hands down.
Drivers, cars and comentery was much better then. Stop the cock!!! and tempt Murry out of retirement, lol
Enjoy,
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpzFjOwcy1w&NR=1
3 legends, well 2 driving and one comentating. A combination that beats modern F1 hands down.
Drivers, cars and comentery was much better then. Stop the cock!!! and tempt Murry out of retirement, lol
Enjoy,
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpzFjOwcy1w&NR=1
I've been following F1 only since the end of 1997 so I don't know what the races were like in the 1980s and early to mid 90s. However, it seems that whenever these 'golden years' are mentioned the same dozen or so film clips are trotted out.
Why is this? Is it just that these were the only ones that were caught on camera?
I don't deny that modern races can be boring but were things really that much better in the past?
Yep
homer3uk said:
SamHH said:
homer3uk said:
Any changes that can help bring about races like Monaco 1992 would be more than welcome.
3 legends, well 2 driving and one comentating. A combination that beats modern F1 hands down.
Drivers, cars and comentery was much better then. Stop the cock!!! and tempt Murry out of retirement, lol
Enjoy,
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpzFjOwcy1w&NR=1
3 legends, well 2 driving and one comentating. A combination that beats modern F1 hands down.
Drivers, cars and comentery was much better then. Stop the cock!!! and tempt Murry out of retirement, lol
Enjoy,
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpzFjOwcy1w&NR=1
I've been following F1 only since the end of 1997 so I don't know what the races were like in the 1980s and early to mid 90s. However, it seems that whenever these 'golden years' are mentioned the same dozen or so film clips are trotted out.
Why is this? Is it just that these were the only ones that were caught on camera?
I don't deny that modern races can be boring but were things really that much better in the past?
Yep
YES YES YES YES YES and YES
Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff