Discussion
I am looking at getting an imac clamshell laptop, nothing stupidly fast it is only 500MHZ but just really want a reliable machine to use on the intenet and store a bit of music and pictures on, would one of these be ok? Bearing in mind they are pretty cheap I don't expect too much, basically the internet thing is the most important, will they connect to broadband? Do they have a cat5 port? or wireless I have both a wired and wireless network.
Oliver
Oliver
There is no such thing as an iMac laptop. I assume you are looking for an iBook. They work fine on networks, whether wired or wireless. Most older G3 "toilet seat" clamshells require an optional Airport card (802.11b only) for Wireless. These are exceptionally hard to get now so I'd try and get a machine with a card in it.
wildoliver said:
Yes it is the G3 and does look like a loo seat!
Can you plug one of the usb wireless adaptors in? Is getting on to the net mush like on a pc?
Can you plug one of the usb wireless adaptors in? Is getting on to the net mush like on a pc?
USB WiFi adaptors tend not to have OSX drivers so don't work. There are one or two that do but they are in the minority. Getting on the net is either similar or easier than on a PC depending on which version of Windows you have! Assuming your router is handing out IP addresses (DHCP) it could be as easy as plugging in the ethernet cable or joining the WiFi network. Out of the factory Macs are set in fully automatic mode so should notice the new connection, get an IP address etc and basically just work. Of course this does not always happen!
These two sites should help on the USB front but I'd really recommend trying to get the internal Airport card. It tends to be easier and the OS supports it fully. www.macwireless.com/index.php www.afterthemac.com/
Edit to add: looks like the situation regarding Airport cards has changed. There are plenty on eBay, some at quite reasonable prices like this one: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Apple-Airport-C Just remember you need an original Airport card, not an Airport Extreme card. It should support 802.11b only (not g and certainly not n).
Edited by robbieduncan on Saturday 14th April 09:03
I would be very cautious about getting a clamshell. It may be just right, but it has several significant limitations that might cost you more in upgrades than picking up a later machine. If it's a freebie, it's well worth it, but if you are paying more than beer money, consider your options.
You really want to be running OSX (stick at Panther - 10.3) - giving you access to iTunes, iPhoto and a 'modern' internet portfolio (Safari & Mail). Being a G3 chip, you will probably also have to install OS9. So make sure you have disks for both included.
Next up, RAM. For OSX, you really want to max it out if you can - but at least 256MB. OSX adores RAM - not just to run several apps, but for significant speed improvements. Check the spec, and if you need more, visit www.crucial.com.
Next is the hard drive. Standard is about 10GB. Your basic installation (OS9, OSX, plus the free apps) is going to be 3GB). That doesn't leave that much space for music and photos. Check whether it has been upgraded, and consider an upgrade. Hard disk changing on the clamshell design could be a bit tricky, as it was never meant to be replaced (you can find the manual at apple.com support, which may include instructions). You could of course plug in a Firewire disk, but that defeats the portability.
Fourth is wireless, which Robbie has explained well. Remember that OSX has an auto-sensing function for connection. You can run wired and wireless (depending on where the machine is at that moment), you can set it to try the ethernet port first, then try the wireless connection, and worst case try the modem. There are some Mac-compatible USB wireless units, but check for Panther and G3 before buying.
Final issue is the battery. It's seven years old, at least, so the chances are that it's knackered. There are tricks to get more out of it (see link below), you may be able to find a good replacement (try NuPower), or accept that you'll be cabled up.
Having done my best to convince you otherwise, if you do commit to one, it will be quite pleasurable. My reserve machine is an original iMac (Panther, 333MHz G3, 256MB RAM, 6GB hard drive, so a broadly similar spec.). As an internet terminal (over ethernet), it does reasonably well, and I'm quite happy to have it on hand for emergencies. Although many programmes now require G4 or Intel chips, and Tiger (OSX 10.4), there's still an awful lot of decent Panther+G3 software about for "normal" needs. Despite recent posts, Panther is fairly easy to get to grips with (I'm reading this as your first Mac). Panther disks will give you:
- Safari (browser), Mail
- iCal, Address Book, iSync
- iPhoto, iTunes, iMovie
- Preview (good image and pdf viewer - faster than Acrobat Reader), TextEdit.
I would consider adding:
- Onyx (free): useful maintenance tool
- ClamXAV (free): anti-virus, just in case, and to avoid passing a virus on to your PC mates.
- NetNewsWire Lite (free): Great RSS aggregator
- Graphic Converter ($30 shareware, but can be used for free): a surprisingly powerful sub-Photoshop graphics programme.
and a selection of opensource alternatives to MS Office.
Try www.lowendMac.com for detailed specs on your model and some useful technical articles. I would suggest you identify sources and potential costs for:
- extra RAM
- a larger hard drive (probably max 128GB)
- wireless
- replacement battery
- Panther disks
then see whether your machine already has some of these. The above could add £200, so just be aware that it may not be worth it.
You really want to be running OSX (stick at Panther - 10.3) - giving you access to iTunes, iPhoto and a 'modern' internet portfolio (Safari & Mail). Being a G3 chip, you will probably also have to install OS9. So make sure you have disks for both included.
Next up, RAM. For OSX, you really want to max it out if you can - but at least 256MB. OSX adores RAM - not just to run several apps, but for significant speed improvements. Check the spec, and if you need more, visit www.crucial.com.
Next is the hard drive. Standard is about 10GB. Your basic installation (OS9, OSX, plus the free apps) is going to be 3GB). That doesn't leave that much space for music and photos. Check whether it has been upgraded, and consider an upgrade. Hard disk changing on the clamshell design could be a bit tricky, as it was never meant to be replaced (you can find the manual at apple.com support, which may include instructions). You could of course plug in a Firewire disk, but that defeats the portability.
Fourth is wireless, which Robbie has explained well. Remember that OSX has an auto-sensing function for connection. You can run wired and wireless (depending on where the machine is at that moment), you can set it to try the ethernet port first, then try the wireless connection, and worst case try the modem. There are some Mac-compatible USB wireless units, but check for Panther and G3 before buying.
Final issue is the battery. It's seven years old, at least, so the chances are that it's knackered. There are tricks to get more out of it (see link below), you may be able to find a good replacement (try NuPower), or accept that you'll be cabled up.
Having done my best to convince you otherwise, if you do commit to one, it will be quite pleasurable. My reserve machine is an original iMac (Panther, 333MHz G3, 256MB RAM, 6GB hard drive, so a broadly similar spec.). As an internet terminal (over ethernet), it does reasonably well, and I'm quite happy to have it on hand for emergencies. Although many programmes now require G4 or Intel chips, and Tiger (OSX 10.4), there's still an awful lot of decent Panther+G3 software about for "normal" needs. Despite recent posts, Panther is fairly easy to get to grips with (I'm reading this as your first Mac). Panther disks will give you:
- Safari (browser), Mail
- iCal, Address Book, iSync
- iPhoto, iTunes, iMovie
- Preview (good image and pdf viewer - faster than Acrobat Reader), TextEdit.
I would consider adding:
- Onyx (free): useful maintenance tool
- ClamXAV (free): anti-virus, just in case, and to avoid passing a virus on to your PC mates.
- NetNewsWire Lite (free): Great RSS aggregator
- Graphic Converter ($30 shareware, but can be used for free): a surprisingly powerful sub-Photoshop graphics programme.
and a selection of opensource alternatives to MS Office.
Try www.lowendMac.com for detailed specs on your model and some useful technical articles. I would suggest you identify sources and potential costs for:
- extra RAM
- a larger hard drive (probably max 128GB)
- wireless
- replacement battery
- Panther disks
then see whether your machine already has some of these. The above could add £200, so just be aware that it may not be worth it.
Cheers Rich, price wise I expect circa £40-50 max, the machine is:
Graphite Special Edition Apple mac G3 ibook . Currently running OSx 10.4 Tiger Edition . 466Mhz . 10Gb HD . 320Mb RAM . plays CDs, DVDs and games. Includes mouse.
Does not come with disks unfortunately, so I would need to get them, the hd will prob be big enough to be honest, I have my desktopper for the majority of stuff but just want this for ebaying and using when I am away etc.
What is the actual architecture of them like? I come from a good history of working on computers, from the old atari st's to the original 086-pentium pc's. I understand the modern macs are pretty similar to PC structure? But I think these are more like the old mac's what processors do they use? Are components like memory and hard drive standard components or unique to macs?
Also how do you reinstall the os, is it like a pc? do they have a bios? do they go down as often as pc's? and are there mac viruses?
Oliver
Graphite Special Edition Apple mac G3 ibook . Currently running OSx 10.4 Tiger Edition . 466Mhz . 10Gb HD . 320Mb RAM . plays CDs, DVDs and games. Includes mouse.
Does not come with disks unfortunately, so I would need to get them, the hd will prob be big enough to be honest, I have my desktopper for the majority of stuff but just want this for ebaying and using when I am away etc.
What is the actual architecture of them like? I come from a good history of working on computers, from the old atari st's to the original 086-pentium pc's. I understand the modern macs are pretty similar to PC structure? But I think these are more like the old mac's what processors do they use? Are components like memory and hard drive standard components or unique to macs?
Also how do you reinstall the os, is it like a pc? do they have a bios? do they go down as often as pc's? and are there mac viruses?
Oliver
I used to have an iBook years ago of exactly that spec. They were good then, and maybe for the money you intend to pay, it could be a good buy.
BUT.. The screens are crap. The resolution is something criminal like 800X600 thereabouts.. Some apps dont even support that low a res, instead needing 1024X768 minimum. Plus when I had mine, the screen faded quite a lot after a year or twos use. After 7 odd years I'd imagine it must look pretty grim now.
Again, for that money, maybe its worth a go. But personally speaking, I wouldn't. Those iBooks are classics already now though, as it was a very nice design.
P,
BUT.. The screens are crap. The resolution is something criminal like 800X600 thereabouts.. Some apps dont even support that low a res, instead needing 1024X768 minimum. Plus when I had mine, the screen faded quite a lot after a year or twos use. After 7 odd years I'd imagine it must look pretty grim now.
Again, for that money, maybe its worth a go. But personally speaking, I wouldn't. Those iBooks are classics already now though, as it was a very nice design.
P,
I wouldn't get one for reasons said above. Plus, if they can wrong, they're a pain to work on.
They're still quite sought after for the looks, which is reflected in the price.
See if you can get a white G3 iBook instead, and if you can stretch to a G4 iBook or PowerBook, you'll be getting a much quicker machine.
They're still quite sought after for the looks, which is reflected in the price.
See if you can get a white G3 iBook instead, and if you can stretch to a G4 iBook or PowerBook, you'll be getting a much quicker machine.
For the price & spec, do it. "Risks" are the battery (this is the chap you want to be finding - note that it is "better than new"
, and wireless adaptor.
Lack of the Tiger disks is of course only a problem if something nasty happens, or you decide to change the hard disk. There are no authorisation keys, so you can borrow a set - I would suggest you find a Mac friend! Reinstalls are rare (and very easy), normally caused by a rare duff machine or you dicking about where you shouldn't.
The iBook wasn't designed for playing inside, just RAM, battery, and perhaps the HD. The G3 chip (Motorola or IBM) is old - it should be about equivalent to a 900MHz Pentium, but Tiger will be working it quite hard. You almost certainly won't be able to play with it or much inside (and cost would be prohibitive). RAM is almost certainly PC-type, but OSX is very choosy - trust Crucial for the quality at a fair price (and quick delivery). Hard drives should be standard IDE, though it needs to be formatted for Mac (which you can do from the installation disks).
To reinstall you put the disk in, restart whilst holding down the C key, then do what it tells you. Then go have a bath or something, it will tell you when it's done. I neither know nor care what BIOS is. In Mac-world, you just click the OK button.
There is only one type of OS disk - none of this Home Semi-Professional Media Millenium rubbish. Relevant options are Archive & Install (saves all your settings documents and apps) or Erase & Install (wipes everything and you install everything from scratch). The other choice is Custom Install (you can prevent it from installing printer drivers and other bits you don't want to waste space on). Archive & Install will sort you out nine times out of ten, but I've had one case where I've had to blitz everything.
Once done, use the Software Update function, which will bring all your Apple & OS stuff right up to date. Run it a few times, as some updates require earlier ones to be installed. It's all incredibly simple.
To clear up the Mac virus myth. OSX is not immune, but it is very secure. One virus has made it into the wild, but even then it was a bit pathetic and got bullied by the Windows viruses. But it will come. Don't waste money on a checker yet, but have ClamXAV on hand. OSX also has a good firewall built in.
Once in, most Mac stuff comes pretty quickly - the whole point is that you the 'normal' stuff is made intuitive. By the way, you can use Windows Sharing to make the iBook appear on your networkas if it were a PC. If you want to learn more, use the links I've given above, and apple.com (Support for documentation & manuals, the Knowledge Base, and the forums). And of course, my usual recommendation for "Mac OSX Tiger - The Missing Manual" - £15 from Amazon - if you fnd yourself struggling or wanting to learn more. This is also useful if you want to play with the UNIX stuff (much talked about, rarely used).
Bottom line is that for £50 it's worth it for the chance to learn what all the fuss is about. Another £15 for the wireless, and you've got an internet machine. £70 if the battery is knackered, £15 for the book. I would agree with Magic Torch that a later white iBook, particularly the G4 chip model (see lowendmac for specs), would be a better option if you can stretch to it, but £50 looks a keen price.
, and wireless adaptor. Lack of the Tiger disks is of course only a problem if something nasty happens, or you decide to change the hard disk. There are no authorisation keys, so you can borrow a set - I would suggest you find a Mac friend! Reinstalls are rare (and very easy), normally caused by a rare duff machine or you dicking about where you shouldn't.
The iBook wasn't designed for playing inside, just RAM, battery, and perhaps the HD. The G3 chip (Motorola or IBM) is old - it should be about equivalent to a 900MHz Pentium, but Tiger will be working it quite hard. You almost certainly won't be able to play with it or much inside (and cost would be prohibitive). RAM is almost certainly PC-type, but OSX is very choosy - trust Crucial for the quality at a fair price (and quick delivery). Hard drives should be standard IDE, though it needs to be formatted for Mac (which you can do from the installation disks).
To reinstall you put the disk in, restart whilst holding down the C key, then do what it tells you. Then go have a bath or something, it will tell you when it's done. I neither know nor care what BIOS is. In Mac-world, you just click the OK button.
There is only one type of OS disk - none of this Home Semi-Professional Media Millenium rubbish. Relevant options are Archive & Install (saves all your settings documents and apps) or Erase & Install (wipes everything and you install everything from scratch). The other choice is Custom Install (you can prevent it from installing printer drivers and other bits you don't want to waste space on). Archive & Install will sort you out nine times out of ten, but I've had one case where I've had to blitz everything.
Once done, use the Software Update function, which will bring all your Apple & OS stuff right up to date. Run it a few times, as some updates require earlier ones to be installed. It's all incredibly simple.
To clear up the Mac virus myth. OSX is not immune, but it is very secure. One virus has made it into the wild, but even then it was a bit pathetic and got bullied by the Windows viruses. But it will come. Don't waste money on a checker yet, but have ClamXAV on hand. OSX also has a good firewall built in.
Once in, most Mac stuff comes pretty quickly - the whole point is that you the 'normal' stuff is made intuitive. By the way, you can use Windows Sharing to make the iBook appear on your networkas if it were a PC. If you want to learn more, use the links I've given above, and apple.com (Support for documentation & manuals, the Knowledge Base, and the forums). And of course, my usual recommendation for "Mac OSX Tiger - The Missing Manual" - £15 from Amazon - if you fnd yourself struggling or wanting to learn more. This is also useful if you want to play with the UNIX stuff (much talked about, rarely used).
Bottom line is that for £50 it's worth it for the chance to learn what all the fuss is about. Another £15 for the wireless, and you've got an internet machine. £70 if the battery is knackered, £15 for the book. I would agree with Magic Torch that a later white iBook, particularly the G4 chip model (see lowendmac for specs), would be a better option if you can stretch to it, but £50 looks a keen price.
Thanks that was very helpful!
And that is one BIIIIIG battery!
I must admit your description of the way the installs etc work is exactly what I want, I work on a lot of PC's and I get quite frustrated with them, everything seems hard work and illogical, almost as if the design team conversed in chinese whispers when writing operating systems. From the little I have had to do with macs and the little I hear about them they seem to make sense.
And that is one BIIIIIG battery!
I must admit your description of the way the installs etc work is exactly what I want, I work on a lot of PC's and I get quite frustrated with them, everything seems hard work and illogical, almost as if the design team conversed in chinese whispers when writing operating systems. From the little I have had to do with macs and the little I hear about them they seem to make sense.
HiRich said:
To clear up the Mac virus myth. OSX is not immune, but it is very secure. One virus has made it into the wild, but even then it was a bit pathetic and got bullied by the Windows viruses.
Care to elaborate on that? Which "virus" has made it into the wild and what the hell do you mean by "got bullied by the windows viruses"?
You're right that it's not immune and you're right that it is possible that one day it will come. To [correctly] clear up the myth, THERE ARE NO VIRUSES FOR MAC OS X. There are some proofs of concept and some root kits but there are no viruses that are capable for propogating themselves without a very large chunk of help from the user.
As always, I am more than happy for someone to prove that wrong but unless you can, PLEASE stop saying that viruses exist in the wild for Mac OS X when they don't.
The advice about keeping ClamXav on hand is good if you exchange files with PC users. It will help prevent you being Typhoid Mary.
Strangely Brown said:
Care to elaborate on that? Which "virus" has made it into the wild and what the hell do you mean by "got bullied by the windows viruses"?
You're right that it's not immune and you're right that it is possible that one day it will come. To [correctly] clear up the myth, THERE ARE NO VIRUSES FOR MAC OS X. There are some proofs of concept and some root kits but there are no viruses that are capable for propogating themselves without a very large chunk of help from the user.
You're right that it's not immune and you're right that it is possible that one day it will come. To [correctly] clear up the myth, THERE ARE NO VIRUSES FOR MAC OS X. There are some proofs of concept and some root kits but there are no viruses that are capable for propogating themselves without a very large chunk of help from the user.
I believe the one based on "Leopard Screenshots" got out of the lab. I remember MacWorld deliberately sourcing it to see what it could do. But it was a bit crap - hardly something any self-respecting hacker could be proud of. IIRC you had to authorise it. And it was not self-propogating. So you had to be pretty dumb to let it in, and even dumber to then email it on, manually - so hardly anyone was infected and it disappeared very quickly. So strictly speaking , there has been one "wild virus", but it barely registers on the worry-meter (especially in the context of any flavour of Windows, even Vista), and certainly wouldn't justify spending money on anti-virus software.
HiRich said:
IIRC you had to authorise it. And it was not self-propogating. So you had to be pretty dumb to let it in, and even dumber to then email it on, manually - so hardly anyone was infected and it disappeared very quickly.
So it doesn't even meet the definition of a virus then. It's just a really poor trojan that requires unsafe, bordering on dumb, working practice from the user to do anything at all.
The statement stands as is. There are no viruses for Mac OS X and you should beware of people trying to tell you otherwise. In general, the only people [who know what they are talking about] who tout that line are those that would have you purchase one of their products to protect you against it. All of the big names in AV are guilty of it to a greater or lesser extent.
Rest assured, when the day comes, and yes I do mean *when*, that there is a credible threat to Mac OS X from viruses, trojans and other malware it will be big news and it will be confirmed by even the staunchest Mac defenders. Until then, just play safe and you will be able to sleep easily.
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