side impact bars?
Discussion
Chaps
As the Griff and the Chimera don't have any form a real side impact protection, I was thinking of making up a set which can bolt in place, thing is I'd need a few people to make it worthwhile doing a small run, would anyone be interested?
No idea of the costs at this stage but it wouldn't be too extravagant as it'll be a bar with some plates on each end to pick up of the hinge and striker plate points inside the door
Matt
As the Griff and the Chimera don't have any form a real side impact protection, I was thinking of making up a set which can bolt in place, thing is I'd need a few people to make it worthwhile doing a small run, would anyone be interested?
No idea of the costs at this stage but it wouldn't be too extravagant as it'll be a bar with some plates on each end to pick up of the hinge and striker plate points inside the door
Matt
It's a reasonable idea, but I'm not totally convinced about how effective you could make these without significant chassis work to put in sufficient points to brace the bar. (I'm fairly sure you could fit triangulated supports to the chassis that would fit inside the skins of the body, but it's not exactly a cheap option)
Have you compared the height of these bars to the average height of a modern vehicle?
I think whatever hits you from the side in a Griff is coming over the top of you regardless...
Unless it's another TVR or a Lotus. But we will assume for the moment that these drivers know better than to hit a fellow enthusiast
Have you compared the height of these bars to the average height of a modern vehicle?
I think whatever hits you from the side in a Griff is coming over the top of you regardless...
Unless it's another TVR or a Lotus. But we will assume for the moment that these drivers know better than to hit a fellow enthusiast
The idea of side impact bars is to transfer the impact energy from the door aperture to the door frame...This works in modern tintop cars as the door pillars are strenthened to absorb the energy. Tvr's aren't! all it is is a fibreglass frame.
The result of a side impact would be the SIB coming through the door skin and into you.
The result of a side impact would be the SIB coming through the door skin and into you.
Edited by bluebottle on Monday 16th April 15:41
the thing is most of the other TVR's have them (including Wedges!) and they do without any chassis pick-ups but rely on the honking big chunks of plate which are glassed into the body to support the door hinges and door lock.
I agree they wouldn't be as effective without some chassis support but they'd be better than nothing surely?
Matt
I agree they wouldn't be as effective without some chassis support but they'd be better than nothing surely?
Matt
Matt - it's a fine idea.. and like you say the wedge and other TVR's have substancial bracing around the door lock area to take this load..
But one problem will remain and it's the same issue the manufacturers initially did not grasp - the door bar can cause as much damage as the inbound projectile (car / lamp post etc) .. hence cars like the wedge have a door 'void' or space for the bar to move into and softer surfaces to crush against the occupant.
It's a really difficult area - good luck.
But one problem will remain and it's the same issue the manufacturers initially did not grasp - the door bar can cause as much damage as the inbound projectile (car / lamp post etc) .. hence cars like the wedge have a door 'void' or space for the bar to move into and softer surfaces to crush against the occupant.
It's a really difficult area - good luck.
I think you are entering a legal minefield.
If you sell them and there is an accident then what? If they don’t work, or make matters worse you are likely to be sued. The only way to avoid that is to crash test a few.
Can I have the parts off the Griffs you write off in the crash tests please?
I promise not to tell the lynch mob where to find the guy who deliberately smashes up their favourite cars.
If you sell them and there is an accident then what? If they don’t work, or make matters worse you are likely to be sued. The only way to avoid that is to crash test a few.
Can I have the parts off the Griffs you write off in the crash tests please?
I promise not to tell the lynch mob where to find the guy who deliberately smashes up their favourite cars.
saxon said:
I'm interested in this and find it disappointing that they were fitted in the wedge but not in the Griff - madness! Anyone know why?
Saxon
Saxon
Depends if the bars in the Wedge were actually there for side-impact protection, or to support the doors from twisting, dropping etc, or to support the mechanisms.
Must admit it was a little disconcerting to realise there is nothing but GRP to protect you on the Griff - even if the bar on the Wedge was not for impact protection, it had a psychlogical benefit!
tvr_nut said:
saxon said:
I'm interested in this and find it disappointing that they were fitted in the wedge but not in the Griff - madness! Anyone know why?
Depends if the bars in the Wedge were actually there for side-impact protection
Simple: the wedges were designed to pass the USA crash tests (and did.) The hinge design on the wedges is completely different (being a column with offset ribs) and far more substantial than the Griff/Chim.
tvr_nut said:
saxon said:
I'm interested in this and find it disappointing that they were fitted in the wedge but not in the Griff - madness! Anyone know why?
Saxon
Saxon
Depends if the bars in the Wedge were actually there for side-impact protection, or to support the doors from twisting, dropping etc, or to support the mechanisms.
Must admit it was a little disconcerting to realise there is nothing but GRP to protect you on the Griff - even if the bar on the Wedge was not for impact protection, it had a psychlogical benefit!
I agree with the first bit, but research has been done to show that FRP / composite side impact bars can be designed to for fill the function of side impact protection at a reduced weight with better energy dissipation and less change of the bar skewering the occupants.. well that the simple version of the summary... when the composite breaks on impact into lots of very very little pieces it uses far more energy than simply bending a bit of metal which once deformed even a very small amount can lose most of it strength.
Mind you if you've ever looked in a griff door theres already plenty of stuff to impale yourself on anyway...
I agree with uncle fester Legal mine field best left alone..
Edited by Griffsmith on Tuesday 17th April 12:51
Ozstyle said:
Hi 350matt,
just a point of interest, my Griff made for the Australian market is fitted with side impact bars (as required by legislation over here). As you describe, fitted between striker plate and upper door hinge.
Ozstyle
just a point of interest, my Griff made for the Australian market is fitted with side impact bars (as required by legislation over here). As you describe, fitted between striker plate and upper door hinge.
Ozstyle
Any pictures..
Always did think it was a big weakness of the Griff / chim.
Hi,
sorry no pics, next time the door card comes off I will oblige if still interested. I don't know what the wedge side impact bar looks like but the ones on my Griffith are construced of square tube in 2 parts one sliding into the other. One end is attached via the 3 striker plate bolts the other end is held in place by the top door hinge bolt. The two sliding tubes are clamped in the middle by a bolt that pinches outer tube to the inner tube. Hope you can visualise this.
Ozstyle
sorry no pics, next time the door card comes off I will oblige if still interested. I don't know what the wedge side impact bar looks like but the ones on my Griffith are construced of square tube in 2 parts one sliding into the other. One end is attached via the 3 striker plate bolts the other end is held in place by the top door hinge bolt. The two sliding tubes are clamped in the middle by a bolt that pinches outer tube to the inner tube. Hope you can visualise this.
Ozstyle
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