New Private HGV Transporter Tacho Rules
Discussion
Does anyone here transport their race cars in Private HGV Transporters? If so, how are you getting on with the new rules governing the use and retention of Tachograph records?
Since April 11th 2007, the exemption from the EU drivers hours regulations for Private use of HGV's has been recinded, and any private HGV will have to fit/use a tachograph and keep the records for a minimum of 1 year. This also means that the driver will have to keep to the letter of the law as to driving hours, and rest breaks.
I can see there being problems ahead........or are people going to ignore the new regs?
Since April 11th 2007, the exemption from the EU drivers hours regulations for Private use of HGV's has been recinded, and any private HGV will have to fit/use a tachograph and keep the records for a minimum of 1 year. This also means that the driver will have to keep to the letter of the law as to driving hours, and rest breaks.
I can see there being problems ahead........or are people going to ignore the new regs?
Im looking into this at them moment, and as usual its not that easy to find out exactly what you need to do.
I've actually got a Full HGV licence up to but not including artics. but as all the trucks i drove were military I've never had anything to do with driver hours or tachos.. Plenty of driving on the rumble strips though !!!!!
I cant see anything in the notes i've got that explains the situation with private HGV's..
There is a section about part time drivers
"Records to be kept by “part time” drivers: If an employee is requested
by an employer/operator to drive an in-scope vehicle for at least one day in a
week there is then an obligation on the employee to keep a manual record of all
work carried out during the days within that week, including when in-scope driving
is not undertaken. These records should be handed in to the Operator as above."
But not sure how that relates to driving your own truck with a race car in the back, racing it then driving home.. can you count everything at the trackas a rest period? Do you have to keep a record of the hours you worked at work ???
if its just sticking to the max driving hours and breaks it shouldnt be too bad but its what else applies and as usual its only the enforcing body that seems to be able to make that bit up when they stop you !!!
I've actually got a Full HGV licence up to but not including artics. but as all the trucks i drove were military I've never had anything to do with driver hours or tachos.. Plenty of driving on the rumble strips though !!!!!
I cant see anything in the notes i've got that explains the situation with private HGV's..
There is a section about part time drivers
"Records to be kept by “part time” drivers: If an employee is requested
by an employer/operator to drive an in-scope vehicle for at least one day in a
week there is then an obligation on the employee to keep a manual record of all
work carried out during the days within that week, including when in-scope driving
is not undertaken. These records should be handed in to the Operator as above."
But not sure how that relates to driving your own truck with a race car in the back, racing it then driving home.. can you count everything at the trackas a rest period? Do you have to keep a record of the hours you worked at work ???
if its just sticking to the max driving hours and breaks it shouldnt be too bad but its what else applies and as usual its only the enforcing body that seems to be able to make that bit up when they stop you !!!
These links might throw some light on the subject
http://trucknetuk.com/phpBB2/viewtopi
www.roadtransport.com/staticpages/drivershours.htm
www.transportoffice.gov.uk/crt/vehicledrivers/drivershoursandtachographs/drivershoursandtachographrules/newdrivershoursrules.htm
I'll explain how I understand it later when I have more time.
http://trucknetuk.com/phpBB2/viewtopi
www.roadtransport.com/staticpages/drivershours.htm
www.transportoffice.gov.uk/crt/vehicledrivers/drivershoursandtachographs/drivershoursandtachographrules/newdrivershoursrules.htm
I'll explain how I understand it later when I have more time.
Graham said:
"Records to be kept by “part time” drivers: If an employee is requested
by an employer/operator to drive an in-scope vehicle for at least one day in a
week there is then an obligation on the employee to keep a manual record of all
work carried out during the days within that week, including when in-scope driving
is not undertaken. These records should be handed in to the Operator as above."
But not sure how that relates to driving your own truck with a race car in the back, racing it then driving home.. can you count everything at the trackas a rest period? Do you have to keep a record of the hours you worked at work ???
if its just sticking to the max driving hours and breaks it shouldnt be too bad but its what else applies and as usual its only the enforcing body that seems to be able to make that bit up when they stop you !!!
by an employer/operator to drive an in-scope vehicle for at least one day in a
week there is then an obligation on the employee to keep a manual record of all
work carried out during the days within that week, including when in-scope driving
is not undertaken. These records should be handed in to the Operator as above."
But not sure how that relates to driving your own truck with a race car in the back, racing it then driving home.. can you count everything at the trackas a rest period? Do you have to keep a record of the hours you worked at work ???
if its just sticking to the max driving hours and breaks it shouldnt be too bad but its what else applies and as usual its only the enforcing body that seems to be able to make that bit up when they stop you !!!
OK here goes, this is likely to be a long and un-interesting post to most people on here, but this is how I see the new regualtions as they affect motorsport.
Firstly, since April 11th 2007, the exemption from EU DDrivers hours regulations for Private HGV's has been recinded, meaning that all vehicles with a GVW of over 7.5 tons(with very few exceptions) are now required to fit & use a Tachograph.
You are legally required to have the last 15 calender days worth of Tachograph charts available for immediate inspection by the authorities. In addition, you must keep your Tachograph records for a minimum of 1 year.
Any movement of the vehicle must be recorded, and any missing mileage accounted for, i.e mechanics moving the vehicle whilst servicing etc.
EU regulations on drivers hours must be adhered to, so a 45 min break must be taken after a maximum of 4 and a half hours driving, this break can be split over the driving period but the law has changed slightly, it is no longer permisible to take 3 x 15 min breaks, if you are to split breaks the last break must now be Half an hour long.
Drivers cannot exceed 9 hours driving per day, although this can be extended twice a week to ten hours.
You are legally required to have an 11 hour rest between driving periods, this can be reduced to 9 hour but only on 3 occassions per week.
Weekly rest periods:
Drivers are required to have a weekly rest of at least 45 hours between finishing work and starting again. This can be reduced to 36 hours but needs to be compensated for buy extra rest by the third week following. If you are taking a weekly rest away from home you can reduce it further to 24 hours. The definition of work is the big problem.
On a friday: Working all day even in an office/shop/factory etc then driving to a race meeting would be illegal unless the total of hours worked is less than 15. Once at the meeting, I assume that racing is classed as your leisure time, and as your away from base, you can reduce your weekly rest requirtement to 24 hours, so no problem.
Sunday, you drive home from the meeting, and again, you have to abide by the EU regs.
I have highlighted the part which I think will be applied to motorsport trucks, and I also think you will be required to keep a manual record of your working time for the previous 15 calendar days if you don't usually drive for a living. VOSA are now 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and they regularly turn up at horse jumping shows, and I think race tracks won't be ignored for long.
As far as I can see, most people are sticking thier heads in the sand and waiting to have their arses kicked, which I have never seen as a good idea when dealing with the authorities.
Edited by simonelite501 on Wednesday 18th April 20:30
The 36 hour rule is also gone, replaced by reducable to 24hrs whether at base or away. But thrown in is you must in any two back to back weeks have a 45hr rest period. So in laymans terms it may cause and issue if you work full time Monday - Friday and have two back to back race weekends - will more than likley be impossible to do legally.
Also worth noting is the over 7.5t is including combined rigs so -
17t truck - Covered at all times regardless.
7.5t truck - Not covered ever if fully loaded to max weight.
7.5t truck only weighing 6.0t towing a 1.4t trailer - Not covered
7.5t truck only weighing 6.0t towing a 1.6t trailer - Covered.
I know a racer that this has affected and if it were me and the towing a trailer caused me to go over I would downplate the truck as much a possible to keep me under the threshold. Easy paperwork exercise if you dont need the carrying capacity for anything.
As a transport manager I am certainly not condoning this at all but as a minimum you should use a tachograph each day you drive your truck and take the breaks as required, if checked you could play dumb to the rest of the week but at least you will have shown some sort of intent and wont get done for failure to keep records, only not adhering to the rules. But god forbid in an accident situation it would all come out in the wash, look at the bloke that parked his land rover on the train line.
Although those that continually break the rules can have there LGV licence revoked by a traffic commisioner. Not the car part, that is yours and only the police can nab that - but your entitlement to 3.5t+ can easily be taken by what is the boss of VOSA if they feel you are abusing the rules.
It is not just you guys, apparently the effect on horseboxes is huge as well. Will VOSA ridgedly enforce it? Who knows, it will be a lot of work of they do.
All I can say is that the last changes they brought in (WTD & 15 days tachos rather than all the current week and last day of last week) was approached softly softly for anything up to a year.
Also worth noting is the over 7.5t is including combined rigs so -
17t truck - Covered at all times regardless.
7.5t truck - Not covered ever if fully loaded to max weight.
7.5t truck only weighing 6.0t towing a 1.4t trailer - Not covered
7.5t truck only weighing 6.0t towing a 1.6t trailer - Covered.
I know a racer that this has affected and if it were me and the towing a trailer caused me to go over I would downplate the truck as much a possible to keep me under the threshold. Easy paperwork exercise if you dont need the carrying capacity for anything.
As a transport manager I am certainly not condoning this at all but as a minimum you should use a tachograph each day you drive your truck and take the breaks as required, if checked you could play dumb to the rest of the week but at least you will have shown some sort of intent and wont get done for failure to keep records, only not adhering to the rules. But god forbid in an accident situation it would all come out in the wash, look at the bloke that parked his land rover on the train line.
Although those that continually break the rules can have there LGV licence revoked by a traffic commisioner. Not the car part, that is yours and only the police can nab that - but your entitlement to 3.5t+ can easily be taken by what is the boss of VOSA if they feel you are abusing the rules.
It is not just you guys, apparently the effect on horseboxes is huge as well. Will VOSA ridgedly enforce it? Who knows, it will be a lot of work of they do.
All I can say is that the last changes they brought in (WTD & 15 days tachos rather than all the current week and last day of last week) was approached softly softly for anything up to a year.
I realise this is an old thread but just wanted to know the up to date position because I am picking up a truck for exactly this situation this weekend.
It's a 7.5t truck registered as a Private HGV and has bona fide living quarters (like a horsebox) and apparently had the speed limiter raised from 56 mph (to something over 80mph) by Mercedes Benz on that basis.
My questions are:
Do I need to use the tacho? - my current understanding is no.
Do I need to record the hours at my day job? - if the above assumption is correct, they I guess this is also a no.
What speeds am I allowed to travel at on motorways and A roads? 70mph/60mph as a motorhome or 60/50 as a truck?
Am I allowed in the outside lane of a motorway? - my assumption is yes
Am I correct and what other issues should I be aware of versus my current arrangements which are a motorhome towing a Brian James Sprint Shuttle.
Thanks & Regards
David
It's a 7.5t truck registered as a Private HGV and has bona fide living quarters (like a horsebox) and apparently had the speed limiter raised from 56 mph (to something over 80mph) by Mercedes Benz on that basis.
My questions are:
Do I need to use the tacho? - my current understanding is no.
Do I need to record the hours at my day job? - if the above assumption is correct, they I guess this is also a no.
What speeds am I allowed to travel at on motorways and A roads? 70mph/60mph as a motorhome or 60/50 as a truck?
Am I allowed in the outside lane of a motorway? - my assumption is yes
Am I correct and what other issues should I be aware of versus my current arrangements which are a motorhome towing a Brian James Sprint Shuttle.
Thanks & Regards
David
160dmb said:
I realise this is an old thread but just wanted to know the up to date position because I am picking up a truck for exactly this situation this weekend.
It's a 7.5t truck registered as a Private HGV and has bona fide living quarters (like a horsebox) and apparently had the speed limiter raised from 56 mph (to something over 80mph) by Mercedes Benz on that basis.
My questions are:
Do I need to use the tacho? - my current understanding is no.
Do I need to record the hours at my day job? - if the above assumption is correct, they I guess this is also a no.
What speeds am I allowed to travel at on motorways and A roads? 70mph/60mph as a motorhome or 60/50 as a truck?
Am I allowed in the outside lane of a motorway? - my assumption is yes
Am I correct and what other issues should I be aware of versus my current arrangements which are a motorhome towing a Brian James Sprint Shuttle.
Thanks & Regards
David
This information is from my dad who has a HGV class 2 licenceIt's a 7.5t truck registered as a Private HGV and has bona fide living quarters (like a horsebox) and apparently had the speed limiter raised from 56 mph (to something over 80mph) by Mercedes Benz on that basis.
My questions are:
Do I need to use the tacho? - my current understanding is no.
Do I need to record the hours at my day job? - if the above assumption is correct, they I guess this is also a no.
What speeds am I allowed to travel at on motorways and A roads? 70mph/60mph as a motorhome or 60/50 as a truck?
Am I allowed in the outside lane of a motorway? - my assumption is yes
Am I correct and what other issues should I be aware of versus my current arrangements which are a motorhome towing a Brian James Sprint Shuttle.
Thanks & Regards
David
You do not have to use a tachograph as it is being used for private not commercial use.
Driving hours won't apply because you are using it as a non-commercial carriage of goods for personal use.
You are not allowed to use the outside lane as the vehicle still weighs 7.5 tons.
Not sure on the speed restrictions, but it seems that the 60/50 speed restriction applies to all private use/commercial use HGV's.
Hope this has helped
Peacockantony said:
160dmb said:
I realise this is an old thread but just wanted to know the up to date position because I am picking up a truck for exactly this situation this weekend.
It's a 7.5t truck registered as a Private HGV and has bona fide living quarters (like a horsebox) and apparently had the speed limiter raised from 56 mph (to something over 80mph) by Mercedes Benz on that basis.
My questions are:
Do I need to use the tacho? - my current understanding is no.
Do I need to record the hours at my day job? - if the above assumption is correct, they I guess this is also a no.
What speeds am I allowed to travel at on motorways and A roads? 70mph/60mph as a motorhome or 60/50 as a truck?
Am I allowed in the outside lane of a motorway? - my assumption is yes
Am I correct and what other issues should I be aware of versus my current arrangements which are a motorhome towing a Brian James Sprint Shuttle.
Thanks & Regards
David
This information is from my dad who has a HGV class 2 licenceIt's a 7.5t truck registered as a Private HGV and has bona fide living quarters (like a horsebox) and apparently had the speed limiter raised from 56 mph (to something over 80mph) by Mercedes Benz on that basis.
My questions are:
Do I need to use the tacho? - my current understanding is no.
Do I need to record the hours at my day job? - if the above assumption is correct, they I guess this is also a no.
What speeds am I allowed to travel at on motorways and A roads? 70mph/60mph as a motorhome or 60/50 as a truck?
Am I allowed in the outside lane of a motorway? - my assumption is yes
Am I correct and what other issues should I be aware of versus my current arrangements which are a motorhome towing a Brian James Sprint Shuttle.
Thanks & Regards
David
You do not have to use a tachograph as it is being used for private not commercial use.
Driving hours won't apply because you are using it as a non-commercial carriage of goods for personal use.
You are not allowed to use the outside lane as the vehicle still weighs 7.5 tons.
Not sure on the speed restrictions, but it seems that the 60/50 speed restriction applies to all private use/commercial use HGV's.
Hope this has helped
As with most of the new DVLA/VOSA b
ks it's a grey area.My advice (as a Class 1 driver) is to play it as safe as you can. At least show that you have tried even if you don't get it quite right.
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