Planning permission for developments
Discussion
How does it work? And in what order?
There is currently a plot of land for sale with outline planning permission for residential development, what does this mean?
Also for private planning, is it normal to seek and confirm planning permission given before buying the land? Common sense tells me that it'd be due diligence to do so but can you find out when its owned by someone else?
There is currently a plot of land for sale with outline planning permission for residential development, what does this mean?
Also for private planning, is it normal to seek and confirm planning permission given before buying the land? Common sense tells me that it'd be due diligence to do so but can you find out when its owned by someone else?
If you're trying to find what planning has been given to any properties then just speak to the councils planning department. For a couple of quid they will give you the plans, etc.
If you're looking at submitting planning on an area of land, then you don't need to own the land to do this, but beware that if you do not complete on the purchase before the planning comes through then the vendor may 'adjust' his selling figure in view of the new permissions.
Planning takes around 10 weeks from date of submission to decision.
If you're looking at submitting planning on an area of land, then you don't need to own the land to do this, but beware that if you do not complete on the purchase before the planning comes through then the vendor may 'adjust' his selling figure in view of the new permissions.
Planning takes around 10 weeks from date of submission to decision.
Seany88 said:
How does it work? And in what order?
There is currently a plot of land for sale with outline planning permission for residential development, what does this mean?
Also for private planning, is it normal to seek and confirm planning permission given before buying the land? Common sense tells me that it'd be due diligence to do so but can you find out when its owned by someone else?
There is currently a plot of land for sale with outline planning permission for residential development, what does this mean?
Also for private planning, is it normal to seek and confirm planning permission given before buying the land? Common sense tells me that it'd be due diligence to do so but can you find out when its owned by someone else?
Outline consent means that there is consent for residential but further details have to be submitted as an separate application to decide on things like the number and size of dwellings
Outline consent is very useful as you know you can build something on it
outline consent is really just to say , yes we would accept residential development on this site, you will need to submit full detailed drawings to the council of the development ie house types / layouts, basically everything to take it to the detailed planning stage
10 weeks to planning , i wish !!!!!
10 weeks to planning , i wish !!!!!
cirks said:
ScottNicol said:
10 weeks to planning , i wish !!!!!
8 weeks limit here between app and decision.... (that doesn't mean the whole process of going backwards and forwards after the initial decision doesn't take longer!)
Statutory determination periods (ie. time that the Local Authority should not exceed for a decision after date of registration of the application) are 8 weeks for minor applications, 13 weeks for major ones. Local Authorities are under huge pressure to be able to put a tick in one of Uncle Tony's Performance Indicator boxes, so an increasing number of applications are actually being dealt with within these timescales, these days, but only because the Planners are insisting that the i's have been dotted and the t's crossed before the application is submitted.
As Cirks says, the determination periods don't include pre-application negotiations, which can often take a lot longer!
seany88 said:
So how do you gauge whether it will be worthwhile or not? Developers can't possibly go into it blind...can they?
Sometimes we do, if we are confident of obtaining some sort of approval and/or if the land is cheap enough, but more often we enter into a contract or option subject to planning consent. It's complicated a complicated business, which is why decent Land Managers command 6-figure salaries, so tread carefully unless you can afford to lose large sums of money!
hobo said:
If you're trying to find what planning has been given to any properties then just speak to the councils planning department. For a couple of quid they will give you the plans, etc.
If you're looking at submitting planning on an area of land, then you don't need to own the land to do this, but beware that if you do not complete on the purchase before the planning comes through then the vendor may 'adjust' his selling figure in view of the new permissions.
Planning takes around 10 weeks from date of submission to decision.
If you're looking at submitting planning on an area of land, then you don't need to own the land to do this, but beware that if you do not complete on the purchase before the planning comes through then the vendor may 'adjust' his selling figure in view of the new permissions.
Planning takes around 10 weeks from date of submission to decision.
Is it a casual conversation with the planning department then? How do you need to approach them?
Seany88 said:
Is it a casual conversation with the planning department then? How do you need to approach them?
Yeah, it's not like international espionage or anything... planning applications are a matter of public record.
If you go in to the reception desk of your local Planning Department and give the clerk an address, they'll do a search for you there and then to tell you what applications are granted or pending on that particular property, or street, or whatever.
Depending upon how progressive the local authority is, you may even find that you can do a search on their website and download copies of drawings and correspondence relating to a particular application as PDF documents.
hobo said:
If you're looking at submitting planning on an area of land, then you don't need to own the land to do this...
But you do need to 'serve notice on' (formally notify) the landowner that you are applying for planning permission on their land (or advertise the fact in the local press if you have been unable to ascertain ownership). If you 'forget' to serve notice correctly, any subsequent approval is technically invalid.
hobo said:
... but beware that if you do not complete on the purchase before the planning comes through then the vendor may 'adjust' his selling figure in view of the new permissions.
... in fact, any sensible vendor will jack up the price as soon as you submit the planning application, so the gaff is blown anyway, if you submit an application before you have completed on the purchase.
I should add that whilst an Outline Planning Approval gives you the comfort that development is approved in principle, it also means that the vendor has already recognised the land's potential and will have priced the plot accordingly. Basic rule of thumb if you want a cheap building plot is never to buy land which is being marketed as a building plot or which already has an Outline Consent on it.
Obviously, the risks are higher (though perfectly manageable if you know what you are doing) finding a suitable property/plot to develop where the vendor hasn't latched on to the potential and buying it under some pretext other than development, but the rewards are much higher.
RedCabbage said:
... because it was about to be rejected to meet the 8 week deadline.
To clarify, though; a planning application cannot be rejected simply because the Planning Authority cannot determine it within the deadline.
They have to give justifiable reasons (in terms of planning law) for the refusal. If they simply fail to determine the application within the 8/13 week statutory period, the applicant can appeal on the grounds of non-determination, even though the application is still running.
Planning Authorities don't like this, though, because appeals take up Officer time and score black marks against them on their perfomance indicator targets, so they will often ask the applicant to withdraw and resubmit just to keep their statistics looking good... if the applicant refuses, they are not allowed to give a refusal out of spite, however!
What does happen quite a lot, though, is that they will ask an applicant to withdraw and resubmit where there are design problems that they think can be resolved quite easily... in this case it's in everyone's best interest - the applicant gets chance to sort out the design issues that would have otherwise resulted in a refusal and gets a 'free go' when he resubmits, and the Planning Authority get another tick in their performance indicators for determining an application on time and avoid the risk of an appeal if the design issues are such that the refusal would be marginally justifiable.
Edited by Sam_68 on Saturday 21st April 14:31
I like the new charging structure for applications (not).I applied for outline planning to build a bungalow on a plot which has a private(unadopted) access road to it.....it was going to cost £1100 for the application as they take into account the shared road (calculated on a sq metre basis IIRC)..so, I put a full application in and it cost £265. Bizarre
Sam_68 said:
RedCabbage said:
... because it was about to be rejected to meet the 8 week deadline.
To clarify, though; a planning application cannot be rejected simply because the Planning Authority cannot determine it within the deadline.
They have to give justifiable reasons (in terms of planning law) for the refusal. If they simply fail to determine the application within the 8/13 week statutory period, the applicant can appeal on the grounds of non-determination, even though the application is still running.
Planning Authorities don't like this, though, because appeals take up Officer time and score black marks against them on their perfomance indicator targets, so they will often ask the applicant to withdraw and resubmit just to keep their statistics looking good... if the applicant refuses, they are not allowed to give a refusal out of spite, however!
What does happen quite a lot, though, is that they will ask an applicant to withdraw and resubmit where there are design problems that they think can be resolved quite easily... in this case it's in everyone's best interest - the applicant gets chance to sort out the design issues that would have otherwise resulted in a refusal and gets a 'free go' when he resubmits, and the Planning Authority get another tick in their performance indicators for determining an application on time and avoid the risk of an appeal if the design issues are such that the refusal would be marginally justifiable.
Edited by Sam_68 on Saturday 21st April 14:31
Let's hope you are right for most LA. My LA however cannot execute such common sense practices. The source of this information actually worked for the planning dept!
RedCabbage said:
Let's hope you are right for most LA. My LA however cannot execute such common sense practices. The source of this information actually worked for the planning dept!
Then you need to beat them over the head with a copy of the Town and Country Planning Act, preferably wielded by a Planning Consultant who knows what he's talking about and backed up with the threat of an appeal with costs!
Plenty of Planning Officers will try to bully or bluff if they think you don't know the system. The first question to ask in this instance, if they are threatening to refuse the application, is 'What grounds for refusal do you intend to use on the notice?'. Insufficient time to determine or inability to determine within the statutory period are not valid reasons... they have the option of asking for an extension of time, it's just if they do so, they won't meet their performance targets. If you do agree to withdraw and resubmit an application, make sure you let them know what a big favour you are doing them by making them look efficient, and make sure you get something in return!
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