PSM..sobering thought !!
Discussion
I know we all like to think we can handle our cars at the limit,cadence braking, sideways action who needs traction control alla PSM or ABS !!?? Well Fridays Mail had a sobering article about a guy who took his GT2 for one last blast (before he sold the car) & lost control hit a tree & sadly killed himself. According to the article he was an experienced driver who regularly raced on track, as you know GT2's & GT3's don't feature PSM (although they have ABS of course).
The limit's of Porsche's Stability Management are set so high that it only cut's in at the ragged edge, so it doesn't spoil the fun & you can turn it off. Even with 4WD my TT can sometimes jink sideways unexpectedly, so what about a GT2. I think PSM should be fitted as standard to all Porkers, we all make mistakes & although it can't defeat the laws of nature
it's nice to know there is a little extra help if you have an unplanned "moment".
The limit's of Porsche's Stability Management are set so high that it only cut's in at the ragged edge, so it doesn't spoil the fun & you can turn it off. Even with 4WD my TT can sometimes jink sideways unexpectedly, so what about a GT2. I think PSM should be fitted as standard to all Porkers, we all make mistakes & although it can't defeat the laws of nature
it's nice to know there is a little extra help if you have an unplanned "moment".
Totally agree on the PSM Grant...There is always the button on the dash to turn it off,if you want some purity or to go into hero mode.
It is by far and away the best "traction control" I have tried.
As great as the GT3 is I beleive it was Walter Rohl developing the GT3 pointed out that for an average driver a C4S would be a better and quicker car..OK I know it's no GT3 ,RS seat of the pants car,but you have to be pretty special to drive a 996 of any descrption particularly 2wd at the limit on a wet surface.
It is by far and away the best "traction control" I have tried.
As great as the GT3 is I beleive it was Walter Rohl developing the GT3 pointed out that for an average driver a C4S would be a better and quicker car..OK I know it's no GT3 ,RS seat of the pants car,but you have to be pretty special to drive a 996 of any descrption particularly 2wd at the limit on a wet surface.
Cars without PSM are not dangerous, ALL cars are dangerous. With the appropriate simpathy to the family of the man concerned, people die on the road everyday due to driver error of some descrption, in this case it may be due to the error of the driver but in many cases it is due to the error of another.
With respect to PSM, you could argue the same about the fitting of a rollcage to protect the occupants, should we all be made to drive Clubsports? Similarly just because ABS is capable of stopping a car more quickly should it be mandatory?
I personally think that we have enough draconian laws relating to cars, driving and speed in this country without making noises about the design of the car itself, and my view is that it is the drivers themselves who need to be educated, but that said even the most experienced drivers have tragic accidents, like Senna/Hawthorn/Villeneuve, in the end it all boils down to the luck of the draw.
With respect to PSM, you could argue the same about the fitting of a rollcage to protect the occupants, should we all be made to drive Clubsports? Similarly just because ABS is capable of stopping a car more quickly should it be mandatory?
I personally think that we have enough draconian laws relating to cars, driving and speed in this country without making noises about the design of the car itself, and my view is that it is the drivers themselves who need to be educated, but that said even the most experienced drivers have tragic accidents, like Senna/Hawthorn/Villeneuve, in the end it all boils down to the luck of the draw.
ninemeister said: Cars without PSM are not dangerous, ALL cars are dangerous.
Exactly!
my view is that it is the drivers themselves who need to be educated, but that said even the most experienced drivers have tragic accidents,
Couldn't agree more about education. And a recognition that tomorrow even the best driver could make a mistake helps very greatly in adopting the correct attitude whilst driving - both on the road and on the track IMO.
Leave a reserve. A margin for error.
I am so sorry to hear of this - both for the driver and generally.
Everytime the driver of a supercar is involved in an incident, especially a fatal one like this, it lends credence to the "anti-car wrap 'em all in cotton wool nanny knows best" lot - who would, frankly, prefer that any kind of performance car be illegal.
I do agree that ultimately it is our responsibility as drivers to ensure that we drive within our own limit's
& I certainly wasn't suggesting that car manufacturers
should be held responsible for drivers actions. As was mentioned people sadly die daily on the roads & it is usually only the high performance cars that make the headlines, often for the wrong reason's. BUT we can all make a mistake & now that the technology exists
to offer us an electronic "safety net" that doesn't spoil the fun & can be turned off (although I can see a down side for track work as I believe it re-triggers under hard braking)why not offer it as an option on all Porkers including GT2's & GT3's ? 462BHP of sudden turbo charged grunt through the rear wheels only & VERY firm race track orientated suspension can become a handful very quickly. Just read this months GT mag. Having said this freedom of choice is a great thing & I respect another persons choice, but on our busy badly repaired high slip roads give me my 400bhp+ with 4WD, PSM & ABS every time !!! As they say one man's meat etc etc.
& I certainly wasn't suggesting that car manufacturers
should be held responsible for drivers actions. As was mentioned people sadly die daily on the roads & it is usually only the high performance cars that make the headlines, often for the wrong reason's. BUT we can all make a mistake & now that the technology exists
to offer us an electronic "safety net" that doesn't spoil the fun & can be turned off (although I can see a down side for track work as I believe it re-triggers under hard braking)why not offer it as an option on all Porkers including GT2's & GT3's ? 462BHP of sudden turbo charged grunt through the rear wheels only & VERY firm race track orientated suspension can become a handful very quickly. Just read this months GT mag. Having said this freedom of choice is a great thing & I respect another persons choice, but on our busy badly repaired high slip roads give me my 400bhp+ with 4WD, PSM & ABS every time !!! As they say one man's meat etc etc.
Each to their own, etc - but there is some evidence that PSM helps less than perfect drivers get more from their car, even on a track.
Most reviewers have commented that there isn't really any point switching it off, and I even saw a wet+dry handling test with a good driver where PSM produced a slightly faster lap time!
Most reviewers have commented that there isn't really any point switching it off, and I even saw a wet+dry handling test with a good driver where PSM produced a slightly faster lap time!
ninemeister said: just because ABS is capable of stopping a car more quickly should it be mandatory?
Yes. Enough bollox is spouted by people who think they can stop a car quicker than ABS can, without even considering the benefits it gives in an emergency. It doesn't affect the day to day useability of a vehicle (unlike a rollcage) or the ability of the driver to have fun (unlike fixed traction control).
Most good optional safety features and innovations are adopted as standard sooner or later.
There are many things that have "diluted" the driving experience over the years but they are things that most of us would wish on our cars, although some did cause outrage with purists at the time.
Pneumatic tyres (you won't be able to feel the road properly)
Servo Assistance for brakes (it'll ruin brake feel you know)
Syncromesh (bah ruins proper gear changing, double declutching for ever !)
Disc brakes (good old drums give you more feel)
Etc.
Although I disagree with some innovations, I think putting roofs on cars was a bad mistake and ruins the experience of real driving
But I do think that its a good idea to have as many safety features on the car as is practical, PSM and stability controls are useful tools and most can be switched off if you wish.
>> Edited by jumjum on Wednesday 7th May 18:38
There are many things that have "diluted" the driving experience over the years but they are things that most of us would wish on our cars, although some did cause outrage with purists at the time.
Pneumatic tyres (you won't be able to feel the road properly)
Servo Assistance for brakes (it'll ruin brake feel you know)
Syncromesh (bah ruins proper gear changing, double declutching for ever !)
Disc brakes (good old drums give you more feel)
Etc.
Although I disagree with some innovations, I think putting roofs on cars was a bad mistake and ruins the experience of real driving
But I do think that its a good idea to have as many safety features on the car as is practical, PSM and stability controls are useful tools and most can be switched off if you wish.
>> Edited by jumjum on Wednesday 7th May 18:38
Jum Jum......I think you point is fair,but looking at your profile do you have PSM on your Boxster?...Because as for "diluting the driving experience" I think PSM is a revelation compared to the intrusive DSC offered by BMW...
What is interesting that having specced it in my C2 it made no difference to the Insurance quote....maybe they think you are gonna go for it a bit more???
What is interesting that having specced it in my C2 it made no difference to the Insurance quote....maybe they think you are gonna go for it a bit more???
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff