What is a "Professional Standards Department"?
Discussion
Chaps,
Quickie.
I have had cause to make a complaint about my local police to the IPCC.
The IPCC has responded, and said that they have forwarded my complaint onto the Professional Standards Department of the force in question (Met.)
What is the Professional Standards Department, do they do anything, can I expect a half-decent response from them? (Part of the problem is that when I originally complained to the Borough Commander, he simply passed the letter to one of the officers I was complaining about, who wrote a completely fact-free reply.)
Oli.
Quickie.
I have had cause to make a complaint about my local police to the IPCC.
The IPCC has responded, and said that they have forwarded my complaint onto the Professional Standards Department of the force in question (Met.)
What is the Professional Standards Department, do they do anything, can I expect a half-decent response from them? (Part of the problem is that when I originally complained to the Borough Commander, he simply passed the letter to one of the officers I was complaining about, who wrote a completely fact-free reply.)
Oli.
zcacogp said:
Chaps,
Quickie.
I have had cause to make a complaint about my local police to the IPCC.
The IPCC has responded, and said that they have forwarded my complaint onto the Professional Standards Department of the force in question (Met.)
What is the Professional Standards Department, do they do anything, can I expect a half-decent response from them? (Part of the problem is that when I originally complained to the Borough Commander, he simply passed the letter to one of the officers I was complaining about, who wrote a completely fact-free reply.)
Oli.
Quickie.
I have had cause to make a complaint about my local police to the IPCC.
The IPCC has responded, and said that they have forwarded my complaint onto the Professional Standards Department of the force in question (Met.)
What is the Professional Standards Department, do they do anything, can I expect a half-decent response from them? (Part of the problem is that when I originally complained to the Borough Commander, he simply passed the letter to one of the officers I was complaining about, who wrote a completely fact-free reply.)
Oli.
They are what it says on the tin. The Americans would call them internal affairs.
Normal bibs are terrified of them as they are usually the witch hunt brigade and if they would investigated mops with the same enthusiasm they go after their own there would be no crime in the UK.
For your part I think it is safe to say you will get a good response from them. They are handpicked for the job and usually at a rank of inspector minimum.
Good luck.
Gently Bentley and Chrispy Porker,
Thanks. I was hoping that they would have somewhat more spine than the officers in question, and your answers would suggest that this is so.
GB - thanks for your wishes of Good Luck. Given the incidents in question, I think I need fair reasoning and someone who is able to understand what is actually going on, is capable of action rather than subterfuge and has the ability to tell the truth from a lie (both when told to him and when it comes to written material he is producing.)
But a bit of good luck along the way will be most welcome!
Thanks again.
Oli.
Thanks. I was hoping that they would have somewhat more spine than the officers in question, and your answers would suggest that this is so.
GB - thanks for your wishes of Good Luck. Given the incidents in question, I think I need fair reasoning and someone who is able to understand what is actually going on, is capable of action rather than subterfuge and has the ability to tell the truth from a lie (both when told to him and when it comes to written material he is producing.)
But a bit of good luck along the way will be most welcome!
Thanks again.
Oli.
zcacogp said:
Gently Bentley and Chrispy Porker,
Thanks. I was hoping that they would have somewhat more spine than the officers in question, and your answers would suggest that this is so.
GB - thanks for your wishes of Good Luck. Given the incidents in question, I think I need fair reasoning and someone who is able to understand what is actually going on, is capable of action rather than subterfuge and has the ability to tell the truth from a lie (both when told to him and when it comes to written material he is producing.)
But a bit of good luck along the way will be most welcome!
Thanks again.
Oli.
Thanks. I was hoping that they would have somewhat more spine than the officers in question, and your answers would suggest that this is so.
GB - thanks for your wishes of Good Luck. Given the incidents in question, I think I need fair reasoning and someone who is able to understand what is actually going on, is capable of action rather than subterfuge and has the ability to tell the truth from a lie (both when told to him and when it comes to written material he is producing.)
But a bit of good luck along the way will be most welcome!
Thanks again.
Oli.
No problem. Ive been on the end of a PSU investigation. They don't mess about. They will do a good job for you. Fortunatly for me the judge agreed that my use of force was proportionate to the threat so they just faded away but by God what a fright I got from them.
At the end of the day if they are there to catch bad cops then I can't critisise them.
gently bentley said:
[quote=zcacogp]Chaps,
if they would investigated mops with the same enthusiasm they go after their own there would be no crime in the UK.
if they would investigated mops with the same enthusiasm they go after their own there would be no crime in the UK.
GB not attempting to stir or have ago in general at BiB but, surely if BiB in general exhibited the zealosness of the IA depts there would be no crime or are you suggesting they are far better at their jobs than run of the mill BiB?
GB - good to know that the job they do is approved of from both ends - it sounds like they are fair, if firm. Sorry to hear that you got an un-necessary fright tho'.
The Police did Sod All (there, had to get "Sod" in there somewhere) about it, and I complained to the Borough Commander. He passed the complaint on to the officer who I was complaining about. Officer wrote to me, excusing him of any culpability at all, claiming that the car had been tested to noise standard BS4142, and a load of other things which are demonstrably untrue. (BS4142 is a noise standard for industrial processes, not vehicular noise.)
The good news is that a number of neighbours are p155ed off about it as well, and one of them is getting behind me in the complaint.
It's only taken 2 years ...
Oli.
Flat in Fifth said:
Oli,
Wondered if it is relating to your old problem with the git idling his car and generally making a row at all hours? If I'm being a nosey git then just tell me to sod off, no offence will be taken, however rude the sod off is.
FiF
FiF, no, no Sod Off at all. You are spot on. Well remembered. Thanks for your interest. Wondered if it is relating to your old problem with the git idling his car and generally making a row at all hours? If I'm being a nosey git then just tell me to sod off, no offence will be taken, however rude the sod off is.
FiF
The Police did Sod All (there, had to get "Sod" in there somewhere) about it, and I complained to the Borough Commander. He passed the complaint on to the officer who I was complaining about. Officer wrote to me, excusing him of any culpability at all, claiming that the car had been tested to noise standard BS4142, and a load of other things which are demonstrably untrue. (BS4142 is a noise standard for industrial processes, not vehicular noise.)
The good news is that a number of neighbours are p155ed off about it as well, and one of them is getting behind me in the complaint.
It's only taken 2 years ...
Oli.
freedman said:
gently bentley said:
[quote=zcacogp]Chaps,
if they would investigated mops with the same enthusiasm they go after their own there would be no crime in the UK.
if they would investigated mops with the same enthusiasm they go after their own there would be no crime in the UK.
GB not attempting to stir or have ago in general at BiB but, surely if BiB in general exhibited the zealosness of the IA depts there would be no crime or are you suggesting they are far better at their jobs than run of the mill BiB?
They only have to prove a discipline case on the balance of probability, they have full access to resoures that would not always be available for some incidents as they have the remit to deal with corruption or perceived corruption. They in general ar e fair minded but they use tactics not allowed against criminals etc etc. You do not want to be investigated by them even if you know you have done nothing wrong. Invetigations can last years and will block tranfers and career moves (even if there is no substance to them). The police service due to the life on mars days is now absolutely driven to ensure we are not only fair and above board but seen to be too. There are no longer any cover ups or 'whitewashes'.
OK, well, I had a letter today from the Directorate of Professional Standards, telling me that the complaint will be dealt with by the head of the local borough where the officers in question work.
Which is a bit of a surprise, and disappointment. Given that one part of my complaint was that when I formally wrote to the Chief Superintendent of the Borough, he passed it onto the one of the officers who was being complained about to answer! Had he dealt with it correctly first time 'round, I wouldn't have taken it to the IPCC ...
Suggestions? Currently planning to call the Detective Inspector from the Directorate of Professional Standards to discuss this, and see whether there is some other way it can be handled.
Oli.
Which is a bit of a surprise, and disappointment. Given that one part of my complaint was that when I formally wrote to the Chief Superintendent of the Borough, he passed it onto the one of the officers who was being complained about to answer! Had he dealt with it correctly first time 'round, I wouldn't have taken it to the IPCC ...
Suggestions? Currently planning to call the Detective Inspector from the Directorate of Professional Standards to discuss this, and see whether there is some other way it can be handled.
Oli.
gently bentley said:
zcacogp said:
Gently Bentley and Chrispy Porker,
Thanks. I was hoping that they would have somewhat more spine than the officers in question, and your answers would suggest that this is so.
GB - thanks for your wishes of Good Luck. Given the incidents in question, I think I need fair reasoning and someone who is able to understand what is actually going on, is capable of action rather than subterfuge and has the ability to tell the truth from a lie (both when told to him and when it comes to written material he is producing.)
But a bit of good luck along the way will be most welcome!
Thanks again.
Oli.
Thanks. I was hoping that they would have somewhat more spine than the officers in question, and your answers would suggest that this is so.
GB - thanks for your wishes of Good Luck. Given the incidents in question, I think I need fair reasoning and someone who is able to understand what is actually going on, is capable of action rather than subterfuge and has the ability to tell the truth from a lie (both when told to him and when it comes to written material he is producing.)
But a bit of good luck along the way will be most welcome!
Thanks again.
Oli.
No problem. Ive been on the end of a PSU investigation. They don't mess about. They will do a good job for you. Fortunatly for me the judge agreed that my use of force was proportionate to the threat so they just faded away but by God what a fright I got from them.
At the end of the day if they are there to catch bad cops then I can't critisise them.
That's pretty big of you mate.
andy_s said:
gently bentley said:
zcacogp said:
Gently Bentley and Chrispy Porker,
Thanks. I was hoping that they would have somewhat more spine than the officers in question, and your answers would suggest that this is so.
GB - thanks for your wishes of Good Luck. Given the incidents in question, I think I need fair reasoning and someone who is able to understand what is actually going on, is capable of action rather than subterfuge and has the ability to tell the truth from a lie (both when told to him and when it comes to written material he is producing.)
But a bit of good luck along the way will be most welcome!
Thanks again.
Oli.
Thanks. I was hoping that they would have somewhat more spine than the officers in question, and your answers would suggest that this is so.
GB - thanks for your wishes of Good Luck. Given the incidents in question, I think I need fair reasoning and someone who is able to understand what is actually going on, is capable of action rather than subterfuge and has the ability to tell the truth from a lie (both when told to him and when it comes to written material he is producing.)
But a bit of good luck along the way will be most welcome!
Thanks again.
Oli.
No problem. Ive been on the end of a PSU investigation. They don't mess about. They will do a good job for you. Fortunatly for me the judge agreed that my use of force was proportionate to the threat so they just faded away but by God what a fright I got from them.
At the end of the day if they are there to catch bad cops then I can't critisise them.
That's pretty big of you mate.
We often say (although not perhaps often enough) that the BiB on PH are great guys (even von!
) and their views are respected by the vast majority of the PH massive. Long may this continue. Julian
zcacogp said:
OK, well, I had a letter today from the Directorate of Professional Standards, telling me that the complaint will be dealt with by the head of the local borough where the officers in question work.
Which is a bit of a surprise, and disappointment. Given that one part of my complaint was that when I formally wrote to the Chief Superintendent of the Borough, he passed it onto the one of the officers who was being complained about to answer! Had he dealt with it correctly first time 'round, I wouldn't have taken it to the IPCC ...
Suggestions? Currently planning to call the Detective Inspector from the Directorate of Professional Standards to discuss this, and see whether there is some other way it can be handled.
Oli.
Which is a bit of a surprise, and disappointment. Given that one part of my complaint was that when I formally wrote to the Chief Superintendent of the Borough, he passed it onto the one of the officers who was being complained about to answer! Had he dealt with it correctly first time 'round, I wouldn't have taken it to the IPCC ...
Suggestions? Currently planning to call the Detective Inspector from the Directorate of Professional Standards to discuss this, and see whether there is some other way it can be handled.
Oli.
People come and go, it may be different officers at the top, who had nothing to do with your complaint originally. If not it does seem a bit odd.
chrispy porker said:
People come and go, it may be different officers at the top, who had nothing to do with your complaint originally. If not it does seem a bit odd.
Nice idea, but it's the same chap. I have called the person at the Directorate of Professional Standards to talk about it; they were busy so I left a message. I'll follow up this afternoon if they haven't called me back.
Thanks, again, for your input.
Oli.
Good point, hadn't thought about addressing the IPCC. Perhaps I'll try that as well. Thanks.
Oli.
Flat in Fifth said:
What's the betting that there is nothing sinister about it but a pure SNAFU.
No, I don't think there is anything sinister, just that someone has failed to spot a trick somewhere. And I am keen to scotch it before it goes too far down that route. Oli.
Chaps,
Minor update .. discussed this with the IPCC, and they advised that I should write to them formally, and to the PSD, and to the station in question, stating that I am not happy with it being resolved at the station level as this has already been tried, and failed, and that I would rather it went back to the PSD.
I have just now had a copper from the station in question on the telephone - apparently he is the chap who is 'charged with dealing with formal complaints'. He is (gently, but firmly) encouraging me to settle for 'local resolution' - namely, resolving it at station level.
I am sticking to my guns and saying that I want it referred back to the PSD (mainly because of the comments in this thread about the PSD being exceptionally through, and my experience of the local station as being distinctly slipshod.)
However, I am just re-visiting this decision ... am I sure that I want it dealt with by the PSD? Hmmm ... actually, even writing this much about it confirms my viewpoint that the PSD are the chaps I want to handle it (unless there is some major factor I have failed to spot.)
Any observations? Thanks for listening ...
Oli.
Minor update .. discussed this with the IPCC, and they advised that I should write to them formally, and to the PSD, and to the station in question, stating that I am not happy with it being resolved at the station level as this has already been tried, and failed, and that I would rather it went back to the PSD.
I have just now had a copper from the station in question on the telephone - apparently he is the chap who is 'charged with dealing with formal complaints'. He is (gently, but firmly) encouraging me to settle for 'local resolution' - namely, resolving it at station level.
I am sticking to my guns and saying that I want it referred back to the PSD (mainly because of the comments in this thread about the PSD being exceptionally through, and my experience of the local station as being distinctly slipshod.)
However, I am just re-visiting this decision ... am I sure that I want it dealt with by the PSD? Hmmm ... actually, even writing this much about it confirms my viewpoint that the PSD are the chaps I want to handle it (unless there is some major factor I have failed to spot.)
Any observations? Thanks for listening ...
Oli.
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