Appealing VAT surcharge notices?
Discussion
I've recently received a VAT surcharge liability notice, so called up HMRC to ask why, as I had sent my VAT return and payment off in good time. Apparently, they didn't receive my return, so have estimated the amount of VAT I should pay and have also charged me a 10% penalty (I was a couple of days late paying my VAT bill in one of the previous quarters, so was playing under a yellow card 
)
I explained that I had posted the return at the same time I sent the payment electronically (which they had received), and that it must have been lost in the post. They told me that they'd send me a duplicate return, however I would still have to pay the 10% penalty as my return will be late, even though they received the payment on time.
The person I spoke to then started telling me quite aggressively that I've been consistently late paying through the year (not true - at most, I've been 1 or 2 days late a couple of times in the last 18 months) and her attitude was that this penalty was all my fault entirely.
This doesn't seem fair to me - I'm being penalised for someone (Post office, HMRC?) losing my return, however I can't actually prove I sent it. Has anyone been in a similar situation and successfully appealed?
If I had actually been late, then I wouldn't mind paying the penalty, but in this case I've done nothing wrong.
) I explained that I had posted the return at the same time I sent the payment electronically (which they had received), and that it must have been lost in the post. They told me that they'd send me a duplicate return, however I would still have to pay the 10% penalty as my return will be late, even though they received the payment on time.
The person I spoke to then started telling me quite aggressively that I've been consistently late paying through the year (not true - at most, I've been 1 or 2 days late a couple of times in the last 18 months) and her attitude was that this penalty was all my fault entirely.
This doesn't seem fair to me - I'm being penalised for someone (Post office, HMRC?) losing my return, however I can't actually prove I sent it. Has anyone been in a similar situation and successfully appealed?
If I had actually been late, then I wouldn't mind paying the penalty, but in this case I've done nothing wrong.
Yes you have - in the eyes of the VAT Office.
The return was late getting to them - end of story.
There are very few grounds for successfully appealing against these particular penalties. Being "dead" is not even allowed as a valid appeal!
I'd chalk it down to experience and ensure that all future returns are sent off at least one week in advance of the deadline date - and obtain a Certificate of Postage.
The return was late getting to them - end of story.
There are very few grounds for successfully appealing against these particular penalties. Being "dead" is not even allowed as a valid appeal!
I'd chalk it down to experience and ensure that all future returns are sent off at least one week in advance of the deadline date - and obtain a Certificate of Postage.
Is it usual to send VAT returns via recorded delivery then? I've always just popped it into the post 1st class, and have never had a problem.
Just my luck that my first one to go AWOL does so whilst I'm under a yellow card
Will I stand much chance of appealing if I point out that post does get lost in the system, that they have always received my returns on time even if the payment has been a day or two late, and that in this case the payment was received on time?
Just my luck that my first one to go AWOL does so whilst I'm under a yellow card
Will I stand much chance of appealing if I point out that post does get lost in the system, that they have always received my returns on time even if the payment has been a day or two late, and that in this case the payment was received on time?
A Certificate of Postage is not "Recorded Delivery". It just proves the date and time the item was posted.
There is nothing to stop you lodging a formal appeal on the grounds that it must have been lost in the post. However, I am pretty certain that the appeal will not be accepted on those grounds.
As has been said, on-line filing is one solution (although just look at what happened to the 154,000 employers who picked up £900 late filing penalties for there 2005/06 PAYE end of year returns).
There is nothing to stop you lodging a formal appeal on the grounds that it must have been lost in the post. However, I am pretty certain that the appeal will not be accepted on those grounds.
As has been said, on-line filing is one solution (although just look at what happened to the 154,000 employers who picked up £900 late filing penalties for there 2005/06 PAYE end of year returns).
I have appealed once for a similar instance, and got the fine waived.
I made payment electronically, it got to them 2 days late, they fined me £700.
I wrote to them - see below - Numbers removed for protection:-
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VAT Number - 6** **** *8
16th November 2005
Dear HMRC,
I received the default notice attached despite paying your goodselves on time? I have defaulted in the past and on the last occasion spoke with one of your colleagues, he suggested I pay electronically then the money would get there. He stated that payment must be made within 7 working days after the due date for the payment.
I therefore sent the electronic payment to you which left my account (Barclays Bank 5********6 – 20-68-10) on the 4th November (once a payment to me had been cleared) this was due to reach you on the 7th at the latest which left me 2 clear working days before it was due to you, fantastic I thought, got one in on time and no fine, yippee as I can’t afford fines like this every 3 months.
I then get the default notice, and the lovely lady who I called this morning said the payment didn’t get into your account until the 9th? Ok I thought but that was in time as there was a weekend in the middle so within the 7 working days limit.
I have just checked your website and it clearly states if paying electronically a 7 day extension is available.
Can you please therefore clarify the situation and cancel this fine.
Warmest Regards
Martin Hunt
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I then received a lovely letter back stating that on this occasion that would wiave the fine, I have never been late since.
Hope this helps.
I made payment electronically, it got to them 2 days late, they fined me £700.
I wrote to them - see below - Numbers removed for protection:-
----------------------
VAT Number - 6** **** *8
16th November 2005
Dear HMRC,
I received the default notice attached despite paying your goodselves on time? I have defaulted in the past and on the last occasion spoke with one of your colleagues, he suggested I pay electronically then the money would get there. He stated that payment must be made within 7 working days after the due date for the payment.
I therefore sent the electronic payment to you which left my account (Barclays Bank 5********6 – 20-68-10) on the 4th November (once a payment to me had been cleared) this was due to reach you on the 7th at the latest which left me 2 clear working days before it was due to you, fantastic I thought, got one in on time and no fine, yippee as I can’t afford fines like this every 3 months.
I then get the default notice, and the lovely lady who I called this morning said the payment didn’t get into your account until the 9th? Ok I thought but that was in time as there was a weekend in the middle so within the 7 working days limit.
I have just checked your website and it clearly states if paying electronically a 7 day extension is available.
Can you please therefore clarify the situation and cancel this fine.
Warmest Regards
Martin Hunt
------------------------
I then received a lovely letter back stating that on this occasion that would wiave the fine, I have never been late since.
Hope this helps.
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